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Steam will have to make games resellable?

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This would be a shit show.

Does the owner of the key get all of the money from the sale or does some go to steam and the devs too? Nobody would ever buy new as you could essentially buy "second hand" and get the exact same hing for cheap. It's not like the case is going to be damaged or the disk scratched on a digital product.

This would probably lead to everyone going subscription only route and that'd be horrible.

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16 hours ago, mtchromatic said:

Here's a guess as to what it could look like. Made this in paint.net in a few minutes.
Gamemarket.png.9818c36f400f4fdfac4d90d906d51700.png

Now add "Factory New, Minimal Wear, Field Tested, Well Worn, Battle Scarred" conditions and it instantly fixes one of the points Beck brought up :shifty:

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Kinda sucks for the devs but I would like someone to give me a valid argument of why you can't sell a digital game that costs $60 vs a retail disc that costs $60 (in both cases its a transfer not a copy or duplicate).

???

Edited by Buddy

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18 hours ago, Buddy said:

Sorry dudes, but it kinda makes sense to be able to sell a $60 game steam or no steam. Especially when you can't just install it, sell and keep playing.

Well no, this is fundamentally and conceptually wrong (licenses).

You can’t resell a cinema ticket, hell you can’t get a refund if you don’t like it.

59 minutes ago, Buddy said:

Kinda sucks for the devs but I would like someone to give me a valid argument of why you can't sell a digital game that costs $60 vs a retail disc that costs $60 (in both cases its a transfer not a copy or duplicate).

???

There’s no valid answer except: you can’t prevent people to resell a physical object*.

Thats why digital distribution started in the first place. Yes GabeN would say it was to update the game and make them “services”, but the first motif for devs was to circumvent the second hand market.

*You can of you have DRMs in place, Microsoft tried it and we’ve seen how it ended.

The problem is a fundamental cultural misunderstanding: the average Joe doesn’t understand the terms of service, like I said in the quote above.

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2 minutes ago, blackdog said:

Well no, this is fundamentally and conceptually wrong (licenses).

You can’t resell a cinema ticket, hell you can’t get a refund if you don’t like it.

You can resell a DVD though. Your comparison doesn't hold up.

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25 minutes ago, Squad said:

You can resell a DVD though. Your comparison doesn't hold up.

No I think it does.

Games are software, and the EULA that comes with it states you are getting a license to use the software.

Afaik film on DVDs don’t have such a license… although they have tried to make it the same.

So yes, game keys are much more alike a film or theatre ticket than a film on DVD.

I might not like the price of things (in fact I don’t buy anything on Day1/full price) but I think it’s fair to the devs.

Dunno if I’m missing something… let me know! I’m actually very surprised to see devs siding with such a demand :)

Edited by blackdog

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39 minutes ago, blackdog said:

No I think it does.

Games are software, and the EULA that comes with it states you are getting a license to use the software.

Afaik film on DVDs don’t have such a license… although they have tried to make it the same.

So yes, game keys are much more alike a film or theatre ticket than a film on DVD.

I might not like the price of things (in fact I don’t buy anything on Day1/full price) but I think it’s fair to the devs.

Dunno if I’m missing something… let me know! I’m actually very surprised to see devs siding with such a demand :)

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not see this happen.

Does that license also apply to physical copies?

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Personally, I just don't want to see the entire game industry going subscription based. There's this great model used  by Serum called Rent to Own. Basically, the user pays a monthly fee for a certain time period, and then they own that version of the software. I feel this would be great for users, lowering the barrier of entry, yet the model is not as predatory as something that is subscription based. Obviously, you can't have a monthly payment system for each individual game. Maybe we can have the player pay 2$ per hour of playtime until 30 hours, and then they own the game. Thoughts?

I feel like this system is great, cause I bought PUBG for 30$, and have only 7 hours of playtime. At the same time, I have played CSGO for more than 1000 hours, and only spent 8$ on the original purchase.

Edited by DMU222

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Yeah, it's obvious this will just cause industry-wide shift in how pricing works, it's not acceptable to developers to completely lose control of pricing their own games. The market will be flooded with insanely discounted re-sales which the developers see $0 from.

9 hours ago, Buddy said:

Kinda sucks for the devs but I would like someone to give me a valid argument of why you can't sell a digital game that costs $60 vs a retail disc that costs $60 (in both cases its a transfer not a copy or duplicate).

???

So on paper it's similiar, but the PC market has heretofore been completely insulated from the console GameStop re-sale stuff. There's also a difference between digital items being resold and physical items being resold, such as a disc. A disc most likely isn't going to be going far from it's current location and likely not going international on re-sale, there are shipping costs associated there and currency differences. I don't know if it would be super devastating but it's hard to argue it won't hurt developers of PC games. Not remotely an expert on this, but IIRC there is already a lot of currency manipulation going on with the sale of game keys, it seems likely that would flourish in this kind of environment.

It's good for consumers in the short term who get cheaper games, but in the long run that just means worse games.

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A thought on that

2 hours ago, FMPONE said:

there is already a lot of currency manipulation going on with the sale of game keys, it seems likely that would flourish in this kind of environment.

The one good thing that would come from a used market would be the death of G2A, why would you go on there when you’d find the games on steam directly

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Quote

 

Buy the new version of our new game, and unlock:

  • The best looking Suit
  • Companion AI
  • +10 equipment slots.
  • Ability to have main weapon
  • Vehicles
  • Health packs
  • Save / Load

Also with the new version you'll gain access to 28 exclusive missions, like:
Actual Finale act
Boss fights
Tutorial

*Used version of our game will only feature 3 missions, where you'll grind for XP bonus to unlock cards that give you access to tokens that will allow you to then play a bonus level.
**None of the story cinematics will also be available on the used version.

 

The future of games is looking pretty interesting... fuck my life, this is so fucking stupid.

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If this was to happen this would change the face of the industry.

This would expedite the transition towards games as a service and force companies to fiercely compete on capturing people's attention and time, since players just getting their hands on the game wouldn't be a credible way to create revenue anymore. If AAA companies didn't have their hand forced into going GAAS enough already, now they would have no other choice other in order to make the game sustainable.

Some beloved developers might still be able to rely on their community's good will to buy the game at full price or use other means of monetization, but for most it's gonna be dog eat dog. Either you have all the players either you have none. Full speculation here, but with competition getting more aggressive, you can probably forget about companies letting us share development knowledge publicly (GDC, forums like this one), as this information would then be key in making a game that stands out in this market.

Story-driven games and other genres that are at core not endlessly replayable would be forced to adopt a different strategy for recurring payment such as the Telltale episodic approach, or what have you.

With lootboxes an other forms of real money gambling already getting restricted/banned, we can likely forget that as a valid strategy in the coming years... so subscriptions -type stuff would definitely be in.

I need to spend more time and think about it, but my gut response right now is a big NOOOOOOPE.

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Digital copy vs physical copy. One or them deteriorates over time, costs more to produce and takes up space on store shelves. Second hand sales of one includes shipping costs (and assumes a good condition of the item), thus limiting the amount on the market. We didn’t have indies before digital distribution for a reason. It’s not very difficult to comprehend. With games you pay for an experience that costs a ton of money to produce these days, you can’t even compare it to how things used to be.

Edited by grapen

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@mtchromatic

images.png.0197586c8530dfc032577357f79498db.png

@Squad I am actually trying to put together a clothing line for a highschool project and I am seeing this problem. Fulfillment is not worth it until you have demand, and shipping and prototyping are still expensive af. Not to mention the LLC price.

@MikeGon I already found it insulting that billion dollar companies put microtransactions in their 60 dollar games that sell twice the budget on launch day. This would make things bad for everyone. But it's not a problem, if devs stayed in France it would be a miracle.

Edited by Interfearance

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