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Deathloop - New Arkane Lyon's game


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On 9/21/2020 at 11:33 AM, Buddy said:

I think this will Bomb hard commercialy. It's one of those games that have not been explained well enough to the casual player.

I stand by this still, I wonder what the numbers are. Steam reviews are not so good so far, Mixed (695)

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I don’t trust user reviews pooped out this quickly. It’s literally come out today; I wouldn’t review a game after 1 session unless it was really terrible*, and this doesn’t look terrible… just maybe “complex”**.

And something this “complex” needs some actual playtime to judge? Like you’d need to get close to the endgame… otherwise it’s like Returnal, that appears as “too difficult”.

Google search brings up 86% Metacritic and some 5/5 from the likes of Eurogamer or Gamespot btw, a legit buy for anyone that likes the previous games or the genre.

*I hardly invest time reviewing unless really triggered.
**As complex as any other Arkane game, I see it as a streamlined Dishonoured if anything.

Edited by blackdog
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Okay, let's do dis

 image.png.994cd9158fc7ddf9c22a75a1db727875.png

 

On 9/14/2021 at 12:25 PM, blackdog said:

I don’t trust user reviews pooped out this quickly. It’s literally come out today; I wouldn’t review a game after 1 session unless it was really terrible*, and this doesn’t look terrible… just maybe “complex”**.

And something this “complex” needs some actual playtime to judge? Like you’d need to get close to the endgame… otherwise it’s like Returnal, that appears as “too difficult”.

Google search brings up 86% Metacritic and some 5/5 from the likes of Eurogamer or Gamespot btw, a legit buy for anyone that likes the previous games or the genre.

*I hardly invest time reviewing unless really triggered.
**As complex as any other Arkane game, I see it as a streamlined Dishonoured if anything.

I'm getting the same feeling I got from Dishonored 2 at the start. I think there's just too much information and too many menus being thrown at you. Which are pulling you out of the immersion a bit. And I know you can disable most of those, but I'm afraid of missing some important info :) 

Otherwise, so far so good! I'm stopping way too often to check out how stylish it all looks. I really need to stop taking so many screenshots.

 

On 9/14/2021 at 4:52 PM, ElectroSheep said:

People just don't update their drivers and then are not happy when everything is burning.

I was expecting a dumpster fire after seeing some reviews, but it runs pretty well even with raytracing on my smashing new 3060 (ok to be fair there's some dips in open areas)

Edited by Radu
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6 hours in and I've just shaken the training wheels. It does like to take it's time to explain how to "break the loop" which I honestly don't mind. theres a lot of mechanics and systems that needs a thorough explanation since it feels like the game opens up a lot after that.

Some signs of a bumpy launch. I would have loved to try out online on my first level when making my first assassination but I couldn't connect to the online service yesterday. The game itself works amazingly good on PS5 with the 60fps mode.

A funny incident with my first AI Julianna encounter. I had just setted up a turret for no apparent reason in the rooftop next to Colts aparment and when she showd up, I just ran past my turret off the rooftop and she just ran into my turret and got shred to pieces instantly. So my first Julianna encounter lasted less than 30 seconds.

I quite like it so far!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I stopped after 4 hours or so because I found myself just following objective markers without fully paying attention to what's going on. Like I mentioned in my previous comment, I think there's just too much information being thrown at you too frequently to the point where you begin to ignore it. And there's also not much incentive to explore areas on your own. The hints Colt gives, even if they make sense from a narrative perspective, add to the feeling that the game isn't trusting me to figure out anything.

I really wanted to like this game, but I guess it's just not for me or not atm. I recently played through Outer Wild's DLC - Echoes of the Eye and that one had me hooked right from the start. It very rarely points you to where to go, instead it gives you just enough information to figure things out on your own, which is a lot more rewarding. You could say it's a bit similar to how Dark Souls gives the player information, though that one is bordering on the more extreme case. 

How do you guys feel about it?

Edited by Radu
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@Radu, this is what we call the "Guided Tour", it guides the player for 2-3 hours after the tutorial map. It's a necessity, before we built up the guided tour, players just felt completely lost, lacking a lot of knowledges from very basic concepts of the game.
We decided to host this through the real maps, so the player can already spend time on them and learn informations that will be useful once this phase is lifted, but for a few hours we have to force the player to go through some key steps.

Once you get through this, you become free to explore the maps and campaign.
But still, we can't just let the players completely in the unknown to solve the big puzzle, there are "leads" that guide the player through the process. You can do these in any order you want, and as for previous games you can disable markers and other options if you want.

The puzzle itself isn't the only important part from the game, it's also how you want to build up an arsenal, there are optionnal missions and vignettes we created to get some extra equipement/lore/rewards (which are usually harder to solve), learning the maps can also become very valuable (finding out new paths, new locations, shortcuts ...), especially in PvP... How you want to play with the loop!


I'm sorry that it feels like too much information is thrown at the player, I actually have to agree on that. It's not necessarily a very complex game, but it's quite unorthodox. It takes a bit of time for the player to feel comfortable with it.

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9 hours ago, leplubodeslapin said:

I'm sorry that it feels like too much information is thrown at the player, I actually have to agree on that. It's not necessarily a very complex game, but it's quite unorthodox. It takes a bit of time for the player to feel comfortable with it.

I’m very fascinated/interested in this aspect of game development, as I see it the most important conjunction of game and UI design.

It’s must be incredibly tricky to strike balance, considering every player is different. I am for example one that -I believe- is very resilient to frustration, I actually make games frustrating for myself (like I spent at least 8hrs on the shipwreck encounter alone in Uncharted 4 because I was convinced I could resolve it the way I wanted, but needed to be perfect at aiming and timing).

In regard of information overload I’ve felt like this recently when I started playing God of War, when you upgrade a weapon there’s so much information… and god help you when you get to the merchant is a non-stop barrage of pop ups!

I wonder what type of R&D there is for a dynamic system (self or user adjusted) dedicated to this aspect; but I can imagine the realities of business and budgets… and how ad-hoc game solutions are. I can only think the pitch for this is that once you get a system like that up and running, you can keep reusing it, so it would be a bit like upgrading your game engine, if you can come up with a generic solution.

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8 hours ago, blackdog said:

I’m very fascinated/interested in this aspect of game development, as I see it the most important conjunction of game and UI design.

It’s must be incredibly tricky to strike balance, considering every player is different. I am for example one that -I believe- is very resilient to frustration, I actually make games frustrating for myself (like I spent at least 8hrs on the shipwreck encounter alone in Uncharted 4 because I was convinced I could resolve it the way I wanted, but needed to be perfect at aiming and timing).

In regard of information overload I’ve felt like this recently when I started playing God of War, when you upgrade a weapon there’s so much information… and god help you when you get to the merchant is a non-stop barrage of pop ups!

I wonder what type of R&D there is for a dynamic system (self or user adjusted) dedicated to this aspect; but I can imagine the realities of business and budgets… and how ad-hoc game solutions are. I can only think the pitch for this is that once you get a system like that up and running, you can keep reusing it, so it would be a bit like upgrading your game engine, if you can come up with a generic solution.

It is indeed very tricky to find the right balance and pace, there is soooo much stuff the player has to learn, such as :

  • Who are you, what is your purpose here, who is Colt ?
  • Who is Julianna, why is she doing this, wtf is going on ?
  • Oh shit, it's a time loop thing, how does it work ? How can it be an issue to me ? How can it be an asset ?
  • What are my tools, what are my weapons, what are the slabs, what are trinkets, what are my player mobility options ... ?
  • Who are those targets I need to eliminate, to what purpose ?
  • How do you convey to the player that they can play however they want, they don't have to fit 1 play style, and they can benefit from the timeloop to experiment things ?
  • How can the player progress through space and time within the timeloop ?
  • ...

I wasn't actually part of the tutorialization work, but it's quite hard to make it all fit.

Time constraints are what they are, and even if popups are not the most appreciated tools they can be efficient. And at least, if a player skips them because it's getting boring, he can find everything back in the menu, or experience by himself.

 

I feel you with your experience with Uncharted 4, it is actually a very big deal with TLOU2 too. There's always a part where you can only expect the players to follow the story and go on with it.

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