FUBAR Ops

[mawibse]

Lol, you mean to tell me that you can see youre body in Dead Cities?

[insta]

You could see your body in Trespasser, and it measured your health by the heart-tattoo on your left boobie. A very good feature.

[mikezilla]

just wait till you have to solve the problem of having a camera tied to the head of a player model...

things like animating view models and shit like that becomes impossibly hard. Not to mention the issues with clipping into walls, and trees and shit. That or you won't be able to walk within 6 feet of anything.

[Taylor]

You could see your body in Trespasser, and it measured your health by the heart-tattoo on your left boobie. A very good feature.

But the retarded arm system wasn't.

Obligatory: OLYARFPSBACT. But it sounds good, it'd be nice if we could have a new game-type though.

There's so many CT mods in development, or waiting for HL2. Yep, they're all ready to try and follow in CS's footsteps by making it the most accurate simulation of real life ever and fixing all of CS's problems! ...and failing to realise CS is popular mainly because of its unrealistic traits.

[DD]

Ay Taylor. You speak the truth. REAL != FUN. Read any magazine, book, or talk to anyone who knows about game design, not even a lot about game design, they'll tell you that REAL isn't FUN.

[mawibse]

You could see your body in Trespasser, and it measured your health by the heart-tattoo on your left boobie. A very good feature.

Oh yeah, tresspasser, I remember now, that was a shitty game. Uh oh!

things like animating view models and shit like that becomes impossibly hard. Not to mention the issues with clipping into walls, and trees and shit. That or you won't be able to walk within 6 feet of anything.

Well I think I mentioned the animation problems already.

We, like most other games without physics, will ofcourse ignore clipping errors until HL2 arrives.

And there is also the problem of should the camera be attached to the body or the body attached to the camera.

If the camera is attached to the body the cameramovements will be a bit more jerky.

If body is attached to camera the body will animate, move and "interact" a bit more strangly with world around it.

Obligatory: OLYARFPSBACT. But it sounds good, it'd be nice if we could have a new game-type though.

Lol, true. Not sure what you mean by new game-type, but I guess it wouldn’t be new if I did?

they're all ready to try and follow in CS's footsteps by making it the most accurate simulation of real life ever and fixing all of CS's problems! ...and failing to realise CS is popular mainly because of its unrealistic traits.

I'm not sure they do. And if they are they seem to go about it wrong.

And it might be you’re and DD's (and lots of others) idea that CS is fun is because it's unrealistic, but it's not mine.

CS is fun because it got great timing and balance and lots of immersion.

Timing because you don't have to wait long until you get into action, but it's not Q3/UT fast that you feel like a cheetah on steroids, detracts immersion.

And timing because you're being punished long enough but not so long that you don't want to play again.

Ay Taylor. You speak the truth. REAL != FUN. Read any magazine, book, or talk to anyone who knows about game design, not even a lot about game design, they'll tell you that REAL isn't FUN.

REAL != FUN.....K Taylor and DD tell you what, there are different kinds of people! *gasp*

Yeah, and there is a whole line of games that sells under the name of "simulations" and some actually buy them!

Sorry, couldn’t resist, I generally agree; REAL != FUN in a game.

But this is supposed to be a "serious" game not a comedy one. In serious games the more the world feels believable and still is not boring, the better it is, in my opinion.

Compare it too a good movie, the more it immerses you the likelier you are too like it. Not because it's "realistic" but because details of “realism” is there, you can relate to it and not think about all the details that is wrong. Immersion is the key word for this mod. We want the adrenaline of immersion, not boring realism. But to get immersion we need details that make you feel you know this world already, and some of it comes from mimicking some parts of real life.

Yeah I know most don’t agree with this but take “bunnyhopping” and “hitfreeze” in CS as an example. Both in removing bunnyhopps and adding hitfreeze you are restricting the player, and if you are used to play without, it’s quite frustrating. But still, I think the overall experience benefit from the restrictions, because of better immersion.

I know... I’m weird.

And about asking a game designer, guess what they would have told Cliffe and Goose when they started on CS. Yepp, not a chance in hell that many players would play a game where you’d move slow, die easily, and had to wait out the round if you where killed.

[Guest The_Postman]

Okay, cut and dry here's why CS is popular:

CS's learning curve is about as steep an incline as Oklahoma's highest mountain (for those not accustomed to US geography, let me give you a diagram ________________________ <--Oklahoma). Any moron can pick up a gun in that game and go at it, and in under 15 minutes have a decent grasp of the game. However, it caters to the "pro" as well by having various aspects that garner themselves to skill (zomg awp nub fags). The simplicity of the game lends itself to all forms of maps and clan-based play. The situation is pretty much meaningless at this point. The "realism" of it is based purely that the weapons look realistic, when well, it's all just window dressing for a supposed damage amount given to each one.

Anyhow, you can say "omg my mod will be different!" but it just gets drowned out by the flurry of similar statements given by every CS wannabe that ever spawned.

[Taylor]

I meant new game-type as in, something that isn't a realistic FPS themed around counter-terrorism.

CS is popular for a lot of reasons, but all of the big ones come from its unrealistic traits. The gameplay is fast, the maps are small, the objectives are barely ever carried out and strategy is next to nil.

My opinion probably means little to you, though. I don't really like this realism fad and want the rocket launchers, multi-hit kills, missile dodging and circle strafing days to loop back round into popularity again. I find realistic action to be unsatisfying and often feel I was killed more by the random seed rather than the player having a Superior level of skill to mine. It irritates and I shake my fist in a threatening way at the computer.

I'm not saying it's impossible to pull off, nor that you could not do it. It's just not my cup of tea right now. Give those Counter-Terrorists concussion grenades so they can launch themselves across courtyards and I'll be happy, but chances are that'll spoil the realism.

[mawibse]

Rofl Taylor!

Well lucky for you and The_Postman there are lots of mods and games that cater to youre tastes, alot more then there are CS wannabies mods. It just don't feel that way sometimes.

Me, I still miss that certain mod. And like all others I think; if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

[spine]

Just want to say that I think CS would have been much better, in my

opinion, with just a tad more realism.

It's dressed up to look realistic so it should be realistic,

if not, it might as well be bunny rabbits with machine guns...

Thats how it feels like to play anyway.

Dont know why most people doom this project right away,

this is most likely the future of CS like games, I mean,

most off us has grown out of CS and want a game like that,

but one that acts the way it looks, real...

So I say GO, but remember that it's still a game ur making so

you will have to make some compromises to make it work.

:wink:

[DD]

CS is fun because it got great timing and balance and lots of immersion.

It's only balanced because its unreal. I'm not sure what you mean about timing, but if you mean gameplay timing, like the way CT's and T's will pop into aztec's main battle area at approx. the same time, and many other maps, thats not realistic either.

REAL != FUN.....K Taylor and DD tell you what, there are different kinds of people! *gasp*

Yeah, and there is a whole line of games that sells under the name of "simulations" and some actually buy them!

Name a single great fun SIMULATION fps and/or third person.

Compare it too a good movie,

Never compare games to movies when it comes to gameplay, I will kill you a thousand times. Yes immersion is important to a game, very, but don't compare it to a movie, compare it to a really good immersive video game.

And about asking a game designer, guess what they would have told Cliffe and Goose when they started on CS. Yepp, not a chance in hell that many players would play a game where you’d move slow, die easily, and had to wait out the round if you where killed.

You really don't move slow in CS, its ridiculously unreal how fast you move, but slow compared to quake. Considering you can take about 15-25 shots to the lefts and arms and chest before dieing, I wouldn't say die easily. CS you always had to wait rounds. So yes, if you asked Goose to change features in CS, which mostly was there in the very early version, I guarantee they would agree, since they made the decisions for the current version and past.

And so I must again say, REAL != FUN. Try to argue it all you want, but you will fail.

[mawibse]

remember that it's still a game ur making so

you will have to make some compromises

.. AAaahh! An NOW you tell me!!

It's only balanced because its unreal. I'm not sure what you mean about timing, but if you mean gameplay timing, like the way CT's and T's will pop into aztec's main battle area at approx. the same time, and many other maps, thats not realistic either.

Not sure where I ever said that CS is realistic? Not sure where anyone ever said that?

You can say CS is more realistic than Q3 but that it's realistic, naah.

I'm not sure what you mean about timing, but

Timing because you don't have to wait long until you get into action, but it's not Q3/UT fast that you feel like a cheetah on steroids

Guess I'm not the only one with short attention span.

Name a single great fun SIMULATION fps and/or third person.

I can't, FUBAR Ops aint ready yet.

Never compare games to movies when it comes to gameplay, I will kill you a thousand times. Yes immersion is important to a game, very, but don't compare it to a movie, compare it to a really good immersive video game. .

Even though there are great fundamental diffrencies between games and movies both share certain traits that is comparible. One of them is the creation of immersion and how to acheive it.

You really don't move slow in CS, its ridiculously unreal how fast you move, but slow compared to quake.

Uhm? Let's see, what would a gamedeveloper compare a new game/mod to??? Oh, perhaps OTHER EXISTING GAMES!! :roll:

Considering you can take about 15-25 shots to the lefts and arms and chest before dieing, I wouldn't say die easily.

... If you have to shoot 30 shots before you manage to kill someone in CS I can understand why you hate it...

CS you always had to wait rounds. So yes, if you asked Goose to change features in CS, which mostly was there in the very early version, I guarantee they would agree, since they made the decisions for the current version and past.

... what are you talking about?

And so I must again say, REAL != FUN. Try to argue it all you want, but you will fail.

If you where the Judge of it then, yes, then I would fail.

[zaphod]

could you put hitting a penguin with a bat somewhere in there? I think you would be golden then.

[DD]

Not sure where I ever said that CS is realistic? Not sure where anyone ever said that?

You can say CS is more realistic than Q3 but that it's realistic, naah.

And it might be you’re and DD's (and lots of others) idea that CS is fun is because it's unrealistic, but it's not mine.

Name a single great fun SIMULATION fps and/or third person.

I can't, FUBAR Ops aint ready yet.

Exactly, you can't name a single good fun simulation game. The does say a lot how FUBAR will turn out.

Uhm? Let's see, what would a gamedeveloper compare a new game/mod to??? Oh, perhaps OTHER EXISTING GAMES!! :roll:

That had nothing to do with my point, try reading again.

... If you have to shoot 30 shots before you manage to kill someone in CS I can understand why you hate it...

I usually take about 3-15 shots, or about 3 bursts. I never said I hate cs. Please don't speak in my name.

Anyways, I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to help. SIMS and games that try to be as realistic as possible generally are not fun. I can't think of a single SIM fps which I consider fun. Operation Flashpoint was neat... but soon got boring and its still not quite a SIM.

[mawibse]

And it might be you’re and DD's (and lots of others) idea that CS is fun is because it's unrealistic, but it's not mine.

And I said that CS is realistic, where?

Exactly, you can't name a single good fun simulation game. The does say a lot how FUBAR will turn out.

... guess thats youre logic, but we're not quiters casue something looks difficult.

That had nothing to do with my point, try reading again.

Uhm.. I read it again, lets see;

I wrote that a gamedeveloper would not think that a game that has a slow player speed had a good chance of becoming popular.

You wrote that CS player speed wasnt slow, only if you compared it to Quake.

And I said that of course a gamedeloper would compare it to other games.

And you said that "that had nothing to do with youre point"!!??

....K? I can't see youre point except what everybody already knows, and its the very reason for FUBAR Ops, CS aint very realistic.

I never said I hate cs. Please don't speak in my name.

You mean like you somehow reading into a sentence that I said that CS is realistic?

Anyways, I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to help. SIMS and games that try to be as realistic as possible generally are not fun. I can't think of a single SIM fps which I consider fun. Operation Flashpoint was neat... but soon got boring and its still not quite a SIM.

I'm sorry you think this mod won't twirl youre hair. But you're not it's targeted audience... obviously.

Well I'm not sure how you tried to help but I thank you for youre effort.