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2 hours ago, zastels said:

You're a pipsqueak and you talk like a Liberal, so many people on Mapcore are always calling people trolls because they're unable to understand a concept or disagree with it. You know you're pathetic when you call something theft that isn't theft, and suck the fucking joy out of sharing art and helping beginners improve their craft. 

You're probably a President Trump hater. You probably think President Trump is "trolling." Lol one of the greatest Presidents ever, but he is a troll, right? 

Is this necessary? If you really want to talk about politics (although I think you're a troll), please don't do it here. I'm all for a nice discussion but this is getting ridiculous.

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Oh boy. That I should live to see this day. Guess it pays of to still be lurking here despite not actively mapping anymore.  Has it really been 6 years since I uploaded this map to gamebanana for t

This is not the US. This is MapCore. Locking this thread before it violates MapCore's rules any further:      

Can't wait till this guy releases dust 2 for csgo

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Let's try to keep this discussion civil.
 

On 3/14/2019 at 11:19 PM, DMU222 said:

@Niller^.- Are you planning to take the map down from the workshop?

Or are you okay with other people using your map in such a 'constructive' manner?

The main problem here is that you're indirectly parsing of other peoples work as your own.

According to gamebanana, where the map is originally uploaded, the work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International (CC BY-NC-ND 4.0) license. I ain't particually knowledgeable on these licensings, but it seems to be a good start to give credit where credit is due.
 

On 3/15/2019 at 6:36 AM, fewseb said:

What was he even hoping to achieve with ripping this map? No offense to the original author, but it was pretty outdated by 2013 standards visually, let alone 2019. I also somehow doubt he made any of the other maps in his workshop other then possible the edits of stock maps, that 38 hours on record doesnt speak well to supposed having 4 fully "detailed" defuse maps done and released.

This isnt a de_toscan situation or one of those where somebody reuploads a community map to use in their server or to make a custom variant of, its not even one where its just a rip with no screenshots or description, just a thumbnail. This person is trying to pass off all these maps as their own when they clearly didn't make any of them.

This is straight up theft, they've stolen a map and claimed it as their own, no mention of the original author, not even any changes between the two they did nothing to make this map their own other then change the name.

No offense taken. This was my first "official" and "competitive" map which it to many degrees suffers from; that and a tight deadline due to being entered into the CEVO/Gamebanana mapping contest at the time. 

This map is so far from being competitive that making a completely new map is more reasonable than trying to make this one competitive.

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5 hours ago, zastels said:

You're the stupid troll who doesn't understand what theft is. It's not theft because the map is still in the hands of the original creator. 

If you have a banana, and I take your banana and you no longer have a banana, that is theft.

If I copy your banana, you still have a banana, that is not theft. 

I am not a contrarian, repurposing public domain material is completely legal

Something being on the internet does not make it public domain. You do not void your copyright by publishing your work.

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41 minutes ago, csWaldo said:

Something being on the internet does not make it public domain. You do not void your copyright by publishing your work.

This is true for a book and a song, not a map. You can't claim Iceworld is held in copyright lmao. Where is the distinction!? If you add another hallway to a map, is it a new map? 

Attribution was given by keeping the maps name the same, so creative commons was not broken. 

You people are not lawyers and thank fucking God for that!

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5 minutes ago, zastels said:

This is true for a book and a song, not a map. You can't claim Iceworld is held in copyright lmao. Where is the distinction!? If you add another hallway to a map, is it a new map? 

Attribution was given by keeping the maps name the same, so creative commons was not broken. 

You people are not lawyers and thank fucking God for that!

The map is a derivative of the original. Part of my job is data management including copyright. 

 

Also the map's name was changed to DE_tenement. attribution is giving credit to original author and publishing date

Edited by Vaya
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Just going to throw this one out there, Valve, a billion dollar company, has been rumoured to cut a map from the first operation because they weren't sure of copyright issues with the map. Crazy right? Almost like they didn't want to take the chance, like the map, even though remade, was so much of a liability, it wasn't worth the chance. Kinda makes you think that you automatically own your ideas even though you post them online. Like almost as the creator you have the power to decide how your work can be distributed, used, and or remixed by others. Also like, you're responsible to defend your own copyright. Makes you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

-Freelance artist that lively hood depends on laws that protect creators.

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13 minutes ago, Thewhaleman said:

Just going to throw this one out there, Valve, a billion dollar company, has been rumoured to cut a map from the first operation because they weren't sure of copyright issues with the map. Crazy right? Almost like they didn't want to take the chance, like the map, even though remade, was so much of a liability, it wasn't worth the chance. Kinda makes you think that you automatically own your ideas even though you post them online. Like almost as the creator you have the power to decide how your work can be distributed, used, and or remixed by others. Also like, you're responsible to defend your own copyright. Makes you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

-Freelance artist that lively hood depends on laws that protect creators.

You're not wrong, you're just making the wrong argument. Monetizing a piece of intellectual property is far different than redistributing a piece of IP that has been put into public domain with a creative commons license. 

 

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Just now, zastels said:

You're not wrong, you're just making the wrong argument. Monetizing a piece of intellectual property is far different than redistributing a piece of IP that has been put into public domain with a creative commons license. 

 

Love the fact you used those three MAGICAL words. Creative Commons License. 

Quote

A Creative Commons (CC) license is one of several public copyright licenses that enable the free distribution of an otherwise copyrighted "work".[note 1] A CC license is used when an author wants to give other people the right to share, use, and build upon a work that he or she (that author) has created.

Creative common licenses are set by the creator, there is no default.

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Christ, you clearly don't understand how CC works @zastels

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

 

Under the following terms:

 

Edited by Vaya
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7 minutes ago, Vaya said:

Christ, you clearly don't understand how CC works @zastels

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

 

Under the following terms:

 

Appropriate credit was given, the OP indicated changes were made, and a link to the license already exists on FPS Banana which someone already demonstrated they could easily find. 

Nobody who creates a map on Source has the right to declare NoDerivatives. You do not own the map, Valve does. You own the IP. 

 

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1 minute ago, zastels said:

Appropriate credit was given, the OP indicated changes were made, and a link to the license already exists on FPS Banana which someone already demonstrated they could easily find. 

Nobody who creates a map on Source has the right to declare NoDerivatives. You do not own the map, Valve does. You own the IP. 

 

No this didn't happen at all. Where did op give credit? screenshot please. Where is the link to the licence on the steam workshop entry? it needs to be on the point on acquisition so people always see it and can't step down a licence. You are clueless about how cc works. The person linking to the map was the original creator!

Valve themselves know that they don't own layouts or custom content. They pay us for original product and don't proceed with anything they can't trace and get approval for.

I'm sorry you just don't get any of this at all. And it's very ironic what you are espousing is basically mapping communism.

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6 minutes ago, zastels said:

Appropriate credit was given, the OP indicated changes were made, and a link to the license already exists on FPS Banana which someone already demonstrated they could easily find. 

Nobody who creates a map on Source has the right to declare NoDerivatives. You do not own the map, Valve does. You own the IP. 

 

That's why Valve bought mirage from bubkez right? 

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2 minutes ago, Lizard said:

That's why Valve bought mirage from bubkez right? 

After bubkez had to change it a bunch because CPL strike...right? He might be mistaking redistribution rights with ownership? I think he is out of his depth clawing on any logic to justify a point he doesn't even understand at this point. Mods should just lock this thread. No good is being done.

Edited by Thewhaleman
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37 minutes ago, Thewhaleman said:

After bubkez had to change it a bunch because CPL strike...right? He might be mistaking redistribution rights with ownership? I think he is out of his depth clawing on any logic to justify a point he doesn't even understand at this point. Mods should just lock this thread. No good is being done.

Censorship is for retards, even Gabe Newell stated censorship is stupid. Why would you advocate a thread is locked, maybe it has something to do with your argument being weak?

At the end of the day, a map literally almost every last person on Earth has forgotten about and was never going to be worked on again, it was appreciated by someone, and it was given a new breath of life. Maybe the guy misstepped a little, but some of you are so dumb that you are virtually incapable of realizing that there is an overwhelming amount of love and goodness in the original post, y'all are transfixed on IP laws that you do not understand. 

This reminds me of the old days of Counter-Map, there was a moderator there named Tommy14, I despised this person. He used to ban and remove posts from anyone who uploaded a map in CS 1.6 that contained textures from Condition-Zero. Tommy14 was an incredible idiot who played a major role in the demise of Counter-Map. He had virtually no understanding of IP law, he acted with nothing more than virtue signalling like many of you here. Somehow in his mind, a person taking textures from one Valve project, putting it into another Valve project, and sharing it was a violation of intergalactic IP law. 

Now to this day, it is common practice to do this with all Valve titles. Valve does not give a shit if you take Portal 2 textures and add them to Day of Defeat Source. Valve does not give a shit if you reupload Dust2, add a hallway, and neglect to mention David J. This is why I feel so many people in this thread are stupid, you people are dumb. You people are killing artistic expression with your stupid fucking rabel. You do a total disservice to the world of map making in general when you make a pariah out of someone just starting off, you act like a cancer. 

This thread should not be locked, this is what actual real discussion looks like. There is no "topic" in conversations, topics naturally delineate as they become more interesting. Locking a thread runs as a direct contravention to the basic principles instilled by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms section 2, and well as the first amendment. If you can't handle freedom of speech, then leave Mapcore! This is a place for artists, not marxists looking to control the speech and expression of others. 

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