Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
zastels

Why did Natural-Selection and The Specialists avoid the Source engine?

Recommended Posts

I think I've wondered most of my life why this is, and it seems to me like so do many others. I have always read that The Specialists just "wasn't possible" on Source engine, but what is the actual reason as to why? Double Action Boogaloo is very similar, so I'm not sure where the actual limitations comes from. 

Same with Natural-Selection, I really love Unknown Worlds, and Spark Engine is pretty darn good, and I'm almost positive they held the same belief that NS2 just wasn't possible to do on Source engine, but I have no idea why. Their programmer Max is probably one of the best in the world, so I assume he had a very good reason. 

Is it just the licensing costs of Havok or something? Because surely the cost to do that is very easy to overcome with crowdfunding. 

I hold the belief that if The Specialists and Natural-Selection came to Source originally, they'd probably be the top played games today. I absolutely love the Source engine, however this question has always remained unanswered in my mind. 

Is there a programmer out there who thinks they could overcome these limitations, whatever they are? Could you explain how you would do that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NS2 started out on the source engine originally. They mention in some old podcast that they wanted a faster workflow - ex: not have to wait for compiles when editing lighting. There are probably other reasons, that go over my head, that a programmer would have better knowledge of. Licensing costs might have also been a determining factor. 

Why do you think those titles would have been the top played games today if they were on Source? These are niche games, much like Day of Infamy, which even happens to run on Source (averages about 1k players), that only appeal to a handful of people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, dux said:

We couldn't afford source or its tools and we kept exceeding the brush limit when we were using it in the early stages. Back then there wasn't any other option with our limited funds so Max wrote us an engine.

If I remember right from when I was briefly helping out (trying to...) on NS the infestation was tricky to get right too. Not really a deal breaker but things add up I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Minos said:

I could be wrong but I recall the guy who ran TS said that he didn't have plans to port the game to Source and that he wouldn't authorize anyone to use the name either...

Damn I’d play that! Would be a really fun project to make maps for :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, PhilipK said:

If I remember right from when I was briefly helping out (trying to...) on NS the infestation was tricky to get right too. Not really a deal breaker but things add up I suppose.

Yeah everything was tricky back then 😄 If valve had been more flexible with licensing the engine and tools things could of been a lot more straightforward. But alas. 2009 was a long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dux said:

Yeah everything was tricky back then 😄 If valve had been more flexible with licensing the engine and tools things could of been a lot more straightforward. But alas. 2009 was a long time ago.

Never understood why Valve felt the need to charge for using their weird, awkward, difficult to use engine. If people wanted to take advantage of the targeted strengths it had, what's the point of charging them out the ass for that?

The only people who ever really showed interest were former HL1 mods/aspiring commercial modders, anyway. Just seemed like artificially limiting the growth of the engine/ensuring that resources wouldn't be put towards engine improvements. Worked out pretty well for Epic...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/18/2018 at 9:31 PM, dux said:

We couldn't afford source or its tools and we kept exceeding the brush limit when we were using it in the early stages. Back then there wasn't any other option with our limited funds so Max wrote us an engine.

This is still to this day unbelievable gameplay, and the theme is amazing. I think if this was on Source it could be made to feel right and every single CSGO player would want to at least try this. 

I think the Source engine would make all the difference, it could give it the right feeling it needs. I think of Natural-Selection as a game like Counter-Strike, where it has to be perfect. 

NS Combat Source would be such an interesting experiment. You don't suppose Charlie would at least entertain the idea? Just look at the success CSGO has. 

Edited by zastels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, zastels said:

 I think the Source engine would make all the difference, it could give it the right feeling it needs. I think of Natural-Selection as a game like Counter-Strike, where it has to be perfect. 

NS Combat Source would be such an interesting experiment. You don't suppose Charlie would at least entertain the idea? Just look at the success CSGO has. 

Wow @zastels, after all the insider insights you received, you completely disregard it and keep on banging your bell.

You really don’t care about the explanations do you? Or don’t have any idea of business.

This thing you are talking is not happening, why would anyone waste their time working on a dying platform: Source is old and there’s no support or development. Even modders are creating HLcontent in Unreal lol.

Unknown Worlds has switched to UE4 for the time being, why would they retrofit a game they are not really developing anymore.

CS is successful in its own right but every month there’s someone discussing if it’s dying. Compared to the other big MP games the numbers of CS are low, and anyway a new game wouldn’t have people transition from CS just because it’s Source powered.

That being said I do hope UW has the chance to work on another NS and hopefully be even more successful.

In regard to The Specialists and Source, I’m pretty sure porting wasn’t considered because Morfeo had been hired by Crytek and moved to Germany at the time. In that period Source licensing wasn’t clear as well.

Nowadays Morfeo is a freelance developer and has switched to Unity, i helped him release Furious Angels last year and on the side of the paid projects, he keeps working on concepts of his own.

Edited by blackdog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/22/2018 at 5:35 AM, zastels said:

This is still to this day unbelievable gameplay, and the theme is amazing. I think if this was on Source it could be made to feel right and every single CSGO player would want to at least try this. 

I think the Source engine would make all the difference, it could give it the right feeling it needs. I think of Natural-Selection as a game like Counter-Strike, where it has to be perfect. 

NS Combat Source would be such an interesting experiment. You don't suppose Charlie would at least entertain the idea? Just look at the success CSGO has. 

Source is old, outdated and not very fun to work with. There's a reason why the majority of today's games run on Unreal, Unity or in some rare cases IDTech or just use their own Inhouse stuff. As far as I'm aware Charlie has absolutely no interest in using Source. Or revisiting NS anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dux said:

Source is old, outdated and not very fun to work with. There's a reason why the majority of today's games run on Unreal, Unity or in some rare cases IDTech or just use their own Inhouse stuff. As far as I'm aware Charlie has absolutely no interest in using Source. Or revisiting NS anytime soon.

All of this is true... but really, no interest in revisting NS? Cold bloooooodeeeedd

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well NS2, even if I didn't played it since probably 4 years, was perfect imo and really doesn't need to be revisited. The only thing it miss is SOME FUCKING GOOD FRIENDS TO PLAY WITH. Seriously, they are all like "boohoo it's too difficult booooh..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NS2 was fun but the commander part was overly complicated and I never even learned it at all or ever played it. loved the FPS combat tho #controversial #risky post

I think if the FPS had been better (big deal) and the commander part was more rock-paper-scissors basic, the game could have been 10-15% more successful

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...