de_templar [WIP]

[King Skizzy]

I have attempted to make a couple maps in the past but gave up so here is another attempt! The theme I am aiming for is a castle set in a snowy mountainous area (original ). I have not started texturing yet and I think that it would be quite unrealistic to finish texturing the entire map by the deadline. My purpose of posting my map here is to help get some feedback on the layout and make it very good before starting to texture it. If I do not have a layout that I am totally satisified with within a couple of weeks I will most likely not bother texturing it but continue to work on it until next year and texture the map then. Feel free to have look around the map and all feedback is appreciated.

Workshop link:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=939137872

Layout:

Screenshots:

Some issues I think I have with the map so far:

- Mid is quite short

- Hard to retake sites after the bomb has been planted

- Lack of vertical height on bombsites - bombsites feel very open

Edited July 14, 2017 by King Skizzy

[King Skizzy]

Quick comparison of the changes I have made - I will post a more detailed update once I have refined my ideas slightly more (new on the right):

Changes made:

- Changed T side entrances into B site to make them feel less cramped and easier to move through

- Added some experimental cover onto B site

- Made mid longer by about 160 units

- Attempted to make A site less open and play better (experimental)

- Removed awkward line of sights

- Starting to move CT back to delay their arrival at both sites and mid

 

[King Skizzy]

The map above shows the places where both CT and T will be able to see each other.

Update:

- Opened up pathways

- Moved T spawn to fix timings

- Re-worked T entrance to B site

- Re-worked second T entrance to A site

- Made mid longer

- Changed the cover on B site

- Added a balcony in mid T side which needs to be boosted into or has the other option of a skill jump

Edited July 14, 2017 by King Skizzy

[King Skizzy]

I found a problem with timings that I hadn't noticed:

So I made a change:

However, going through the bombsite takes the same amount of time so my question is should I remove the other pathway?

By this I mean:

Edited July 14, 2017 by King Skizzy

[Roald]

Ey man I see u do alot of work on creating a layout for your map, but I think you should make things more simple.

My feedback is based on your overview so it might not be accurate, so dont blame me for that :D.

Its just your map seem to have so many tight corridors, so many corners, so many angles and so many paths that is feels like a labirint to me. U can compare it to these noodles:

https://goo.gl/images/ukFYtg

 

The map feels to be so chaotic to me. If I were you I should rework your layout to the most easy simple geometry you could possibly do and also think about what exactly you want. Sometimes it helps to have some good reference and decide where in the map u create this reference. It could help u on designing the layout, but it should not restrict your layout! And u could learn alot from watching the overviews of official competetive maps. 

when u got a basic layout with the main paths you could think of creating more interresting shapes.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Roald

[King Skizzy]

1 hour ago, Roald said:

Ey man I see u do alot of work on creating a layout for your map, but I think you should make things more simple.

My feedback is based on your overview so it might not be accurate, so dont blame me for that :D.

Its just your map seem to have so many tight corridors, so many corners, so many angles and so many paths that is feels like a labirint to me. U can compare it to these noodles:

https://goo.gl/images/ukFYtg

 

The map feels to be so chaotic to me. If I were you I should rework your layout to the most easy simple geometry you could possibly do and also think about what exactly you want. Sometimes it helps to have some good reference and decide where in the map u create this reference. It could help u on designing the layout, but it should not restrict your layout! And u could learn alot from watching the overviews of official competetive maps. 

when u got a basic layout with the main paths you could think of creating more interresting shapes.

I completely agree with you that the map looks very confusing from looking at the layout but I think that it is mainly down to the many door frames and 90 degree angles in the map making it look complicated. When I play it ingame it doesn't seem confusing whatsoever... that might be because I made it. It reminds me of cache B site where the layout looks confusing but is actually very simple. I will update the workshop soon and I would be grateful if you could have a run around to confirm if it is actually confusing to play. Thanks for your feedback!

I removed thin walls, made walls flat, removed unecessary boxes, removed door frames and removed some 90 degree angled pathways. To me it looks extremely more simple than before.

Edited July 15, 2017 by King Skizzy

[Roald]

Looking much better already yea!

I have subscribed to it on the steam app, will check it ingame soon for you to see if I got any more feedback. 

[Roald]

Hey man I walked arround as promised. I see u got a old version on ur workshop? Still I give u some feedback on that one.

The maps to be less chaotic ingame indeed! It's quite alright. It could use some better movement flow but it's quite good already. Your paths seems to be well placed and you thought well about where to place cover. There are no crazy seightlines I saw so far. I find midle a clear simple mid that should work well. Bombsites are alright aswell but they could use some more work. You could try adding some more elivation in your map. Like the drop from T side to midle, that's cool. Maybe add some elivation on the bombsite(s) aswell. I created some feedback on a overview for you, I hope u understand what I mean. Mainly what bothers me are some double corners to check and some empty unessecary rooms that should be gone. And I am wondering how CT rotation will go? it feels they do not have many options when T's push CT spawn just a litle bit. 

- Entering the upper bombsite as a T, there is this doorway with deep angles on both sides. Create a door with like 45 degree rotation so one angle (I should go for the left one) is gone. 

- Entering the upper bombsite from mid connector as a T exposes you to so many angles. I would atleast get rid of the deep left angle. 

- Entering the lower bombsite as a T also exposes you to multiply angles. I would cut off the outer part so you only have these double corners on the left and the bombsite it's self to check. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Roald

[King Skizzy]

37 minutes ago, Roald said:

Hey man I walked arround as promised. I see u got a old version on ur workshop? Still I give u some feedback on that one.

The maps to be less chaotic ingame indeed! It's quite alright. It could use some better movement flow but it's quite good already. Your paths seems to be well placed and you thought well about where to place cover. There are no crazy seightlines I saw so far. I find midle a clear simple mid that should work well. Bombsites are alright aswell but they could use some more work. You could try adding some more elivation in your map. Like the drop from T side to midle, that's cool. Maybe add some elivation on the bombsite(s) aswell. I created some feedback on a overview for you, I hope u understand what I mean. Mainly what bothers me are some double corners to check and some empty unessecary rooms that should be gone. And I am wondering how CT rotation will go? it feels they do not have many options when T's push CT spawn just a litle bit. 

- Entering the upper bombsite as a T, there is this doorway with deep angles on both sides. Create a door with like 45 degree rotation so one angle (I should go for the left one) is gone. 

- Entering the upper bombsite from mid connector as a T exposes you to so many angles. I would atleast get rid of the deep left angle. 

- Entering the lower bombsite as a T also exposes you to multiply angles. I would cut off the outer part so you only have these double corners on the left and the bombsite it's self to check. 

Thanks for your feedback! I have already started working on another version of the map that moved the upper site further from mid and I will include lots of your ideas into the new version as well.

With the areas the you marked yellow in T spawn and CT I don't think is completely necessary to remove those because no action will happen there (more like saving spots I guess...) but I do agree with where u have placed them on other parts of the map. With the room you marked as purple on the upper site did you know that the brush inside the window is breakable? Just wondering out of curiosity to see whether that would change your opinion on that room.

Also, with the lower site where you suggested moving the bombsite to the green area I think that would make the bombsite feel really cramped and wouldn't work well for after plant positioning... remind me slightly of de_canals A site. I will see how it plays out in a playtest to know whether it needs changing or not.

With regards to the purple area on the lower site I wanted to add an area that was wallbangable and was an experimental idea that was just thrown in. I can understand why you don't like it, should I put a box there instead or just leave that area open or keep it but just close the entrance? I feel as though when pushing the lower site as a group of 4/5 Ts it would be quite hard to hold the site as a CT.

When you commented above saying that you would look around my map I instantly updated the workshop version so I'm not sure how you would've got a outdated version, I will check again to make sure its up to date.

Edited July 19, 2017 by King Skizzy

[Roald]

About the empty spaces at the spawns. Its distracting. As a ct it feels u can go straight but u cant and for t spawn somehow it feels there is a path to the right but again nothing. Maybe there is a way to keep the space as u wish and increase the path flow another way.

I didnt knew about the breakable window no u should definitly go for a playtest. It will provide u better info then people like me walking arround and guessing.

I guess I played ur latest version. I espected something different with the latest overview picture but I guess thats just a drawing

[King Skizzy]

Quick look at some changes from the radar... will be quite hard to see them from the radar but will post screenshots of changes soon!

Bombsites and spawns haven't been marked out but are the same as the older versions.