The Last Night

[dux]

I lold at the right wing cyberpunk bit.

[DrywallDreams]

2 hours ago, [HP] said:

All the more reasons why I'm curious about how the story might develop drywall, right?

I mean, Cyberpunk has been stationary for a while, and its formula kept unchanged, so much so that you're being conservative about the fact of playing around with its blueprint, and give it a diferent spin.

The need to come up with a new name for a sub-genre might come up, if it really prooves to be a problem, who knows, but my point being that just because a game, movie or book deviates from the foundation of its very genre, it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist based solo on that critic, imho. We don't even know what the story will be like, so we have no grounds to be dismissive of it so rapidly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about this because it is interesting to me.  I'm just pedantic about the whole -punk part of cyberpunk since I'm a fan of the genre.  I just see too much cyberpunk that misses the attitude of punk (and my god, we need more punk in games in this post-THPS world ).

imo there should be a different genre for not-quite-cyberpunk.  Lots of stuff is falling into it recently.  

I don't mean to say the game shouldn't exist, I'm worried about it not being good!  Again, I've seen way too much weak cyberpunk recently.

If the dev has really changed, that's cool (being a jerk isn't cool), but as it stands I'm wary of what it's going to be.  

[Sprony]

3 hours ago, DrywallDreams said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about this because it is interesting to me.  I'm just pedantic about the whole -punk part of cyberpunk since I'm a fan of the genre.  I just see too much cyberpunk that misses the attitude of punk (and my god, we need more punk in games in this post-THPS world ).

imo there should be a different genre for not-quite-cyberpunk.  Lots of stuff is falling into it recently.  

I don't mean to say the game shouldn't exist, I'm worried about it not being good!  Again, I've seen way too much weak cyberpunk recently.

If the dev has really changed, that's cool (being a jerk isn't cool), but as it stands I'm wary of what it's going to be.  

Please define what cyberpunk is supposed to be because now I'm confused. Serious question btw, I'm not trolling you.

[DrywallDreams]

3 hours ago, Sprony said:

Please define what cyberpunk is supposed to be because now I'm confused. Serious question btw, I'm not trolling you.

It's an image of the future portrayed through a punk ethos, meaning it focuses on the issues of systemic oppression, late capitalism, and class, as well as race, gender, sexuality, and so on.  It's much more than the "neon slums" aesthetic (and isn't necessarily that aesthetic),

[Jetsetlemming]

"punk" in the "cyberpunk" sense is a reclaimed slur. It originally meant "prostitute", and became a term for any untouchable poor person. This is why Capitalism is the villain in nearly all cyberpunk stories, it's the system of oppression that creates and then demonizes prostitutes and other impoverished people. Class struggle and the essentially physical consumption of the bodies of the underclasses at the core of the genre. If a setting is about "feminism took over the world and now you can't be politically incorrect", that's a completely different thing.

For a comparison using 90s action movies, which might be more approachable than book references, look at Robocop vs Demolition Man. In Robocop, Megacorps are buying up the entire city of Detroit, including the police force, and are fueling the conflict of the plot in order to further expand their control. Robocop is cyberpunk. Demolition Man is set in an overly politically correct future where you get fined for swearing and toilet paper is illegal. The conflict is driven by a future liberalized society's inability to deal with a 90s era terrorist. Demolition Man? Not cyberpunk. (it's still a pretty good movie though)

Edited June 16, 2017 by Jetsetlemming

[blackdog]

This popped on my YT page and spent time to watch it, pause to read the tweets etc

Personally I don't see anything upsetting regarding gender equality, I don't think Soret wrote anything offensive in the past that justifies people going after him today.

This Zoe Quinn looks to me like the guy that was standing under the supermarket sign hoping it would fall on him to sue

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/17/man-stands-under-loose-sign-for-two-days-hoping-itll-fall-on-him-so-he-can-sue-6455419/

[Klems]

Hey guyz, I found the perfect picture to sum up how I feel about this whole controversy ordeal.

Devs said it was post-cyberpunk rather than cyberpunk. I'm not too big on categorizing stuff but it makes sense.

[Sprony]

Thanks for the explanation @DrywallDreams and @Jetsetlemming!

[D3ads]

Didn't really want to drag this out, but some things need addressing...

On 15/06/2017 at 1:52 AM, DrywallDreams said:

What did Anita Sarkeesian lie about?  She simply said there's a tendency to portray women in video games as negative stereotypes, and showed examples of such stereotypes 

She did much more than that, she completely flat out lied on numerous occasions about scenarios in certain video games to push her agenda, the fact that you don't know about that leads me to believe you don't actually know much about Gamergate. Take a look:

You can find many examples like the above, just research it. She claimed she was doing all this because she was a gamer who loved video games and then was caught on camera saying she wasn't actually a gamer at all and everything she did was about "social justice".

Quote

The wage gap exists, here's some statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Gender_pay_gap_statistics. 

Aside from the fact that the EU has a lot of varied figures considering that different countries hold different standards, it makes it clear from that data that it simply a comparison of the average earnings of men and women. When you take into account different jobs, hours worked, the simple fact that women generally go for lower paid and part time jobs, you can see clearly see that the different choices made by men and women make an impact on the statistics. It has nothing to do with women being paid less than men for the same job because of sexism, it has nothing to do with discrimination. Anyway, don't let me "mansplain" about it, I'll let an actual feminist (Christina Hoff Sommers) explain it to you from a US perspective since I believe that's where you live:

 

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Feminists portraying straight white men as the enemy is a stereotype that you've been sold.  

Give me a break, the whole "white guilt/privilege" rubbish is pushed by feminists at every turn, stereotypes exist because there was a truth in it in the first place and the hundreds of such articles on Huffpost, Salon, Slate, Buzzfeed and the like clearly show this. Then there's sites like Everydayfeminism where every article is basically just "check your white male privilege and stop oppressing me". 

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Women (and LGBTQ+ people, people of color, etc) just want more positive portrayals of themselves in games, that's all.

You mean feminists... most regular women don't give a shit, the vast amounts of women cosplayers wearing "boob armour" and dressing up as Quiet from MGS5 is evidence of that. How many video games feature LGBTQ people anyway let alone negative depictions? In certain games, such characters can add something I'm sure like in certain tv programmes and movies, Felix from Orphan Black for example is one of my favourite characters. Otherwise what's the point, especially with Transgender people who are a tiny minority. People of colour depends entirely on the scenario, funnily enough Anita did a recent video about this and got destroyed as per usual...

For the record, "Islamophobia" was a term used by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the Mullahs in Iran to shut down any debate over the teachings of the prophet in the Quran and the Hadith. Ask yourself why there is so "Sikhophobia" "Buddophobia" "Hinduphobia" etc

Quote

Of course Gamergate was portrayed as negative, it was started over a non-existent review of a video game.  The big buzzword was "Objective reviews," a concept that does not, and is impossible to exist.

It really started because of the Zoe post, which you described as "a harassment campaign by her abusive ex-boyfriend" which leads me to believe you haven't actually read it because then you would see it's more like her boyfriend pouring his heart out because his girlfriend cheated on him. Zoe Quinn is a cry bully, she claims to be the sole victim of abuse but she and her minions have harassed and doxed people just as much. She's literally gotten dozens of projects shut down all over because, she objected to their themes or she cherry picked certain things people working on them said using various campaigns through petitions and gofundme donations. Now the campaign to shut down yet another talented game is in full swing as we can see. I fully accept that she got threats and was harrassed but it was mostly from trolls whose sole intent was to cause harm anyway and she gave as good as she got. Hell.. the FBI did a investigation into it and found no credible evidence of actual crimes in the making...

As for other things discussed, I can quite easily talk about the many issues with BLM or what Islamism is (nothing to do with blaming an entire religion for terrorism) but I don't want to drag this thread into the land of off topic, so I'll just end this here with a recent video:

*drops mic*

Edited June 21, 2017 by D3ads

[-HP-]

This is a really annoying hot button topic, way more than I realized. Video games are an art form, and whenever politics or even political agendas start to creep in an art form, it just feels really fucking weird to me.

From one side, you have people saying we have the responsibility to live up to our standards in storytelling and embrace equality and all of that jazz, the other side tries to protect freedom of expression and call out the other side's bullshit. I see validity in both sides arguments, what I don't agree is the way both sides have been fighting this war for a while now.
You're not gonna fix the worlds problems by saying we need to make it impossible to kill hookers in video games and by blocking people commenting on your views, but you're also not going to fix the world by making death threads and calling people "cunts".

For fuck sakes people, we need to be able to have a fucking dialog without finger pointing, and at the very least try to listen to each other and trust that at the end of the day logic and rational thinking can come out on top.

[DrywallDreams]

On 6/21/2017 at 0:53 PM, D3ads said:

????

that was one of hte most unhinged things i have ever seen posted here (lucky for you you had to compete with white supremacy).

just to your point of no other words existing for prejudice against religions thus islamophobia doesn't exist, 'antisemitism' exists. 

okay i'm out fuck this too many crazy people here

[Buddy]

Haha WAT

[-HP-]

15 hours ago, DrywallDreams said:

okay i'm out fuck this too many crazy people here

You're leaving because there's people who think differently than you? I don't even know what to say to that man. You do whatever you want, but I just ask you to ponder on the dangers of the mental attitude of blocking other's views entirely. Why should it be so hard to just agree to disagree?

[D3ads]

HAHAHA.. this is fucking beautiful; Sarkeesian was sitting on a panel at vidcon yesterday holding a conference about "online harassment against women" and some of the "anti-SJW" users were sitting in the audience right at the front including Mundanematt, and Anita recognised Sargon Of Akkad and proceeded to call him a "shit head" and "human piece of garbage" !! The irony of abusing someone who has done nothing to you (apart from making videos that call her out on her bullshit like hundreds of others) at a panel about standing up to abuse...! She also tried and failed to get security to move them to the back because she felt like they were invading her safe space... hahahaha. Funny thing is she actually broke the convention rules with her little stunt and now people are trying to get her kicked off (or it's just a troll using the same kind of victim claims she uses). The absolute audacity of that woman, the same woman who went to the fucking UN with Zoe because she didn't like people telling her "you suck" on the internet. Jesus Christ.

http://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/06/anita-sarkeesian-calls-sargan-of-akkad-human-garbage-during-vidcon-panel/33681/

Missed an opportunity to get as many women as possible to ask questions and call her out on her nonsense, nevermind...

On 23/06/2017 at 2:03 AM, DrywallDreams said:

that was one of hte most unhinged things i have ever seen posted here (lucky for you you had to compete with white supremacy).

just to your point of no other words existing for prejudice against religions thus islamophobia doesn't exist, 'antisemitism' exists. 

okay i'm out fuck this too many crazy people here

There's nothing "unhinged" about anything I said, and what the Hell is "lucky for you you had to compete with white supremacy" supposed to mean?

Antisemitism is prejudice against Jews as an ethnic group, it includes Anti-Judaism where apparent but it is not exclusive to it since there are non-religious Jews. Whereas Islamaphobia is exclusively about the religion of Islam and it's followers, not a race.

It's not my fault if the things I state offend you or whatever, since offence is taken not given and facts don't care about your feelings.

[Sprony]

I'm getting more and more disillusioned by people.