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The Last of Us Part 2

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16 minutes ago, Pampers said:

Okay, then I misinterpreted your first answer, apologies. I think just another Ellie and Joel adventure would been just that, fan service, boring and predictive, and very safe. But ND is trying to push the medium further that most other companies here and I think they deserve some kudos for that, even if they might have missed the mark. At least it wasn't some Game of Thrones ending where they just gave up in the writing room. What happens in the story is all the same to me in the end, it's the discussion around it online I have found interesting. In-game I've spent most of the time looking at the tech and all the cool details in the world lol

Not sure I buy that first bit.

I mean you can take it that the Ellie Joel story ends with Last of Us, that it was somehow final (which evidently it wasn't as they are both in this game).

But using that argument I could say well God of War two shouldn't involve the relationship between Kratos and Boy as it would just be fan service, boring and predictive and very safe.

Its a poor argument to make about a sequel. I think Radus point about consumer expectations is a very important one and is often the downfall of lots of games/IPs. Story or gameplay, making radical shifts in a sequel is a bad idea.

Haven't played this yet and still looking forward to playing this.

Edited by Vilham

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No, I'm saying it is entirely depending on the execution, both can work!

You can run it safe, but might risk that it goes stale, like the avenger movies did for me and quickly lost interest. God of War is an example of the opposite where it did work. TLOU2 could be an example where not playing it safe might have failed. As I said in my first post, the writers have to balance between the story they want to tell and what the customers expect, and that can be hard.

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Spoilers

Spoiler

 

To add more salt to injury, Ellie doesn't even go through with her goal in the end. And you have to ask, would she really not do that? So much pain and suffering and for what? Aside from it being a revenge story, it doesn't even deliver the much awaited payoff. That's what I can't wrap my head around.

I think all of us here could come up with "better" alternatives to that story and we're not even that good of writers. I'll give you an example right off the top of my head that would have pleased the fans and been somewhat interesting: Imagine if they did went for another Joel and Ellie adventure, but instead of killing Joel at the start they played his incoming moment of death to the end. And just built on the tension of when it's gonna happen or if it's really gonna happen. What if that moment at the start with Abby would be her having to infiltrate their camp and play along until the right moment, but after a while of spending time with the group she'd start to question her intentions? You would have more time to develop that character and warm the players towards her, even sympathize a little. And instead of Joel being killed by her, he could sacrifice himself to protect her during some life and death moment. He would redeem himself and she'd get half of her revenge as well. Now, obviously there's a sheer amount of details to figure out to make that work and goals, but tell me the fans wouldn't have liked it better?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Radu said:

Spoilers

  Hide contents

 

To add more salt to injury, Ellie doesn't even go through with her goal in the end. And you have to ask, would she really not do that? So much pain and suffering and for what? Aside from it being a revenge story, it doesn't even deliver the much awaited payoff. That's what I can't wrap my head around.

I think all of us here could come up with "better" alternatives to that story and we're not even that good of writers. I'll give you an example right off the top of my head that would have pleased the fans and been somewhat interesting: Imagine if they did went for another Joel and Ellie adventure, but instead of killing Joel at the start they played his incoming moment of death to the end. And just built on the tension of when it's gonna happen or if it's really gonna happen. What if that moment at the start with Abby would be her having to infiltrate their camp and play along until the right moment, but after a while of spending time with the group she'd start to question her intentions? You would have more time to develop that character and warm the players towards her, even sympathize a little. And instead of Joel being killed by her, he could sacrifice himself to protect her during some life and death moment. He would redeem himself and she'd get half of her revenge as well. Now, obviously there's a sheer amount of details to figure out to make that work and goals, but tell me the fans wouldn't have liked it better?

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah I found her introduction really clumsy, so I agree with you there

 

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26 minutes ago, Pampers said:

No, I'm saying it is entirely depending on the execution, both can work!

You can run it safe, but might risk that it goes stale, like the avenger movies did for me and quickly lost interest. God of War is an example of the opposite where it did work. TLOU2 could be an example where not playing it safe might have failed. As I said in my first post, the writers have to balance between the story they want to tell and what the customers expect, and that can be hard.

I mean avengers movies might have lost you, but in viewing figures they only increased I think.

God of War worked as it was a complete reset, new theme etc, only similar thing was Kratos.

TLOU2 takes place a few years after the last one.

"As I said in my first post, the writers have to balance between the story they want to tell and what the customers expect, and that can be hard." I think that is exactly Radus point,.

Anyway I have yet to play so I shouldn't be commenting on the specifics of this game, I was merely highlighting I don't think Radus point is a bad one.

Edited by Vilham

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59 minutes ago, Vilham said:

Story or gameplay, making radical shifts in a sequel is a dangerous idea.

Fixed(?) 😁

~
You guys already finished it?? 😵 do you play on easy or am I just too noob and anal trying to explore every corner… the first one took me so many sessions to finish 😅

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Also, sexually ambiguous characters in post-apocalyptic setting make very little sense (or even Trans but I'm not sure if Abby is one, because how the fuck you do that? Who prescribes & produces the hormones?). They should've reserved that for some other title where it makes sense setting-wise. Uncharted maybe?

Bring back Amy Hennig.

Edited by Buddy

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1 hour ago, Buddy said:

Also, sexually ambiguous characters in post-apocalyptic setting make very little sense (or even Trans but I'm not sure if Abby is one, because how the fuck you do that? Who prescribes & produces the hormones?). They should've reserved that for some other title where it makes sense setting-wise. Uncharted maybe?

Bring back Amy Hennig.

Was it really stated in the story that she was trans? Or is it something players kinda figured out?

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1 hour ago, Buddy said:

Bring back Amy Hennig.

I wish someone would give her the chance to make another Legacy of Kain

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33 minutes ago, Radu said:

I wish someone would give her the chance to make another Legacy of Kain

I'm still sad about the cancellation of her SW game, and I'm not even a fan of the movies.

I bet the powers that be really regret that decision after SW Fallen Order success.

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Finished it today. Thought it was fantastic. Slightly disappointed by the ending. Loved Abby as a character.

Spoilers below. You've been warned.

Spoiler

People are getting really pissed at Joel's death. I thought killing him off was a very bold way of moving on from the first game and trying something new. Did people want 20 hours of trudging through cities with Joel again like in the first game? That would have been boring. Killing off Joel is a brilliant way of creating a 'bad guy' and a driving force for the game.

However, over the course of the game, you come to realise that the person who killed Joel had her justified reasons for doing so, and is in fact, not so much of a 'bad guy' after all. Joel came in and brutally shot her dad to death for just trying to find a cure. That's literally all she knew. That's horrific when you paint it in that light. That poor girl lost her dad, who she was extremely close to. If somebody killed my loved ones like that, I would absolutely want to get my revenge. That's the really incredible thing that this game has done, is painting a different picture of what happens to these people that are senselessly killed over the course of the first game.

It was one of my main issues with Naughty Dog's other game series, Uncharted. You kill 100s of goons and it just becomes meaningless violence. Really switched me off from that game. However, in this game, as Ellie, you're killing people who are just trying to live their lives in the communities that they've joined. There's no good guys and bad guys. Everyone's just out for survival. It sucks, and it's a pretty horrible existence. 

Both Abby and Ellie were totally justified in wanting to get revenge. I loved seeing Abby's perspective on what happened.

That said, however, the ending left me disappointed. I liked Abby so much that I did not want to kill her, so I chose not to hit square when Ellie was trying to stab her to death. The game made me restart from a checkpoint. Huge dissonance there. So I restarted, hit square, and Abby survives. Ellie gives up fighting. I'd have preferred it if they sat down and actually spoke to one another about their trauma, and resolved things. That would have felt like a very satisfying end to me.

But overall, I loved the direction they took this game. Compelling characters. I actually found the gameplay bits to be the most boring bits of the game - I was just enjoying the game as sorta like an interactive movie by the end.

 

Edited by PogoP

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3 hours ago, dux said:

Reading through this thread, jaysus. I'm goin back to my simple no think bang bang shooty shoot games.

I also just got Tetris Effect. it's fuckin amazeballs.

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On 6/24/2020 at 3:06 PM, dux said:

Reading through this thread, jaysus. I'm goin back to my simple no think bang bang shooty shoot games.

TLOU2 is one of my favourite games of this year, easily. Love me some old fashioned shooters, but this is truly pushing the bar of what games can be, in my opinion.

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