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The Last of Us Part 2

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2 hours ago, Vilham said:

Do I like stealth games 😕 HP o HP, I completed MGS4 with a Big Boss Rating.

Yes I like stealth games, atleast good ones.

The combat was just floaty and pretty plain. Essentially core gameplay was a little too shallow, story made up for it.

You basically mean: it's too much of a casual stealth instead of hardcore?

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Ha, i get your reasoning. I actually liked the combat so much i put 50+ hours in the multiplayer, lol. Love how the MP offers more than just worrying with shooting guys on the head. 

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@Izuno Oh no, I actually love the combat in TLOU1!

It's one of the most elegantly designed action/stealth games I've ever played. I think the systems really shine on grounded mode, and I never feel too overpowered with stealth takedowns and such. TLOU brought tension back to stealth games for me, after years of headshotting entire levels of enemies with a silenced pistol/bow with no real effort or creative thinking required. It also has one of the best uses of a dynamic line of sight system I've seen in a game (along with splinter cell conviction/blacklist imo).

I was just talking about some things that worry me in the design going forward, specifically I would like stealth to stay underpowered and things like hiding in foliage/crafting ammo kinda worry me.

Also, this video is pretty fascinating. I think the guy talking is a animator from Ubisoft? I forgot. I dunno anything about animation but it sounds like they are doing some groundbreaking stuff with animation blending and such:

Also, I think I forgot how good the animations were in UC4. If anyone can pull these types of animations off in actual gameplay, it's naughty dog:



Edited by nikkoship

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So that guy pretty much agrees, everything is technically possible to do. Its just not realistic that everything is that systemic and that perfect. Hes also not bringing up the actual events that happen that are too well framed for it not to be massive scripted. This is an uninterrupted sequence of 7 minutes. I've seen/done the work that goes into getting a perfect take for gameplay footage/trailers numerous times. Getting 7 minutes without any hick ups (not even the slightest little thing) is completely unheard of. I'll break down the number of perfect things (systemic or otherwise) that happen then you tell me if you think that is possible to capture without anything going wrong.

 4:32 - jump down is perfectly timed with the camera coming around to look at them. (so they have a quick pause in their patrol at the top, perfectly normal, they happen to drop down just as the camera brings them back into frame. That requires perfect user timing/input to capture (thats the running theme, the person "playing" this has to remember and nail the timing on all the camera movements))

5:08 -  onwards definitely scripted but I imagine its meant to look that way.

5:49 - climb up and lo and behold two guys in a patrolling behaviour are perfectly there (again given the systemic nature of the systems claimed and the openness of the levels in TLOU1 where scripting that stuff becomes impossible, seems very convenient)

7:00 - perfect timing, guy jumps down (remember open nature of encounters, where the AI are any time is essentially random) just as the fight has concluded.

7:05 - pretty sure the AI wouldn't be able to take that 2nd shot from his position given the cover in the way. He would of had to fire and move at lightning speed to get to a position where he could fire.

7:06 - conveniently placed AI (remember open nature of encounters, where the AI are any time is essentially random) 

7:25 - o look two more incredibly well framed and conveniently placed AI (remember open nature of encounters, where the AI are any time is essentially random) just as you turn the camera

7:40 - really that's part of their AI behaviours, impressed if it is.

8:15 - perfectly timed guy starts shooting (remember open nature of encounters, where the AI are any time is essentially random) just as the fight has concluded. What happened to the 2nd guy who was behind you, why in all the time hasn't he moved up to engage given that he was happy to after the first encounter.

8:29 - another perfectly timed AI (seeing a theme yet?)

8:34 - another perfectly timed AI

8:44 - another perfectly timed AI, infact the guy that probably should of been shooting at you before given he had a good minute to get to the fight (he was surprisingly fast earlier but now hes not, almost like they despawned and respawned him there)

8:46 - another perfectly timed AI

8:47 - misses and blows out the glass, totally achievable, just requires you to litter the level with markup and destructible objects (technically possible, doubt you can have it on a default PS4 and all this other complex AI perception, destructibles, etc)

8:53 - perfect timing again

9:50 - lots of AI failing to see you even though they do in other situtations (light/dark stealth mechanics potentially)

10:00 - we are now at about a minute of a perfect stealth encounter in a small space with 4 AI, not a single hick up

10:07 - at this point we are assuming physics objects everywhere right, why did not a single physics shelve get destroyed in that explosion yet they do 2 seconds later in a small melee fight, also note that the destruction there was very specifically only the bottom part he hits.

10:13 - where the hell did bow woman go, she was literally 10ft away from you, yet she doesn't appear in this fight for another 10 seconds

10:18 - ok so ai markup with destructible, again totally possible, but extrapolate this to be systemic and there are about 50 destructible in this shop alone, yeah good luck getting that running on a default PS4.

10:24 - lets say they are using the IK system from god of war for the hammer impact, in god of war that is only on Kratos, here presumable for it to be systemic its on every single AI in the scene. yeah good luck getting that running on a default PS4.

10:26 - o there's bow woman, what perfect timing and then she gets perfectly framed by some pretty lighting showing of real time reflections.

10:35 - hammer man just took 10 seconds to move 5ft and then perfectly timed to attack as the last person is dead

So yeah, all of that stuff has to happen for this perfect recording. 23 separate events that given the AI systems they have should be completely unpredictable. Like if hammer guy at the end didn't somehow take 10 seconds to move the who thing would be blown. Honestly its so obviously scripted this shouldn't be a talking point. Its no different than The Division 1 E3 reveal.

My quote from back then in 2013: "It's not the graphics tech that is impressive, its actually quite mundane stuff that unreal and cryengine have done for a few years now. Its the absurd amount of detail in the scene + all the effects + all the "non scripted" things like the car door being pushed.and the car getting shot and having a hundred holes made in it. Those together make me extreme skeptical, especially considering Ubisofts significant downgrades on WatchDogs since its first reveal."

Its the same thing here. Its not that things can't be done individually its all of it together and too many "non scripted" things happening.

If they have managed to pull all of this off, hats off to them. I'm looking forward to the game either way.

Edited by Vilham

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I wonder if this is another Bioshock Infinite scenario, where a sizable portion of their e3 demo was ingame and it was running, but it wasn't game ready code, it was made for very specific proof of concept contextual situations. Many teams treat their e3 demos like their midproject vertical slice, where they still take a lot of liberties and they'll figure out how to do it for real later. 

Anyway. This I think can be dangerous and leads to unrealistic expectations from gamers and no less problematic for the devs. When they get back to the office stressing out how they'll actually turn what was shown into a full game. 

This is all speculation of course, usually naughty dog does deliver in terms of quality always, and I'm a huge fan of everything they put out. 

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