POTUS 2016

[-HP-]

 

[Jetsetlemming]

10 hours ago, Vorontsov said:

Has any election been based on the popular vote? People talk about popular vote but he is BARELY behind, she got most of her votes from sanctuary cities. Pretty much all of the states she won, requires no identification when voting.

(I may be talking out of my ass, correct me if I'm wrong)

You are talking out of your ass, and are wrong. Voting nation-wide requires registration, which requires identification and a stable address under your name or family. This system does not let non-citizens register, while throwing out vast swaths of babies with the bathwater by preventing anybody transient, homeless, without proper papers, or without their name on a lease, mortgage, or utility. In the vast majority of states (iirc only two are exceptions), the system also blocks anybody currently in prison, and in many anybody who's ever been in prison is prevented from voting for the rest of their lives.

America prevents millions of its citizens from voting under the specter of people who live here without documentation daring to get a voice in how their adoptive communities are run, and prevents tens of millions more from voting by making it very, very difficult to do if you're poor. Thousands of people lost their jobs last Tuesday because they were denied time off during the 8 AM to 9 PM window on a single day once every four years we're given to vote, and went anyway. When you actually look at the numbers, barely 25% of eligible voters, or 18% of all American adults, actually voted for Donald Trump. The rest voted against him, or couldn't participate in our stupid fucked up antidemocratic system.

Also Donald Trump barely got any more votes than Mitt Romney did in 2012. Instead, about six million fewer ballots were cast for Clinton than Obama, a consequence of the weakened VRA (which allows local Republican parties to change rules to prevent black people from being able to vote without any oversight or veto process), and the abandonment of poor people in this country by the Democratic Party, who's so out of touch they said shit like "America is Already Great" and "A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump", assuming mandatory support from the poor.

 

Also in the last week over 2000 more people joined the already largest Socialist organization in the US, the Democratic Socialists of America (which is not a party, but an independent organization that pushes specific candidates, regardless of party, in primaries and local elections), so I'm actually feeling pretty optimistic.  over 50% of young Americans even say they'd be willing to vote for a Communist.  

Edited November 14, 2016 by Jetsetlemming

[blackdog]

@Sprony very uneducated guess here, but I'm thinking that a lot of people that is racially consider Hispanic is now second or third generation. They might feel so American that they despise they're origin country?

Ive seen couple videos on YT, the "insta karma, street justice" kind, involving latinos getting bashed. And if you read the comments there were people writing "yes that shit of a person totally deserves it, these are the kind of people that makes us look bad, these are the people that should be deported. I should know, I'm Latino so I'm right".

[Jetsetlemming]

8 hours ago, Sprony said:

I'm seeking knowledge, so please enlighten me. Also, I'm serious and really looking for facts.

I can't fathom why minorities and women would vote for a guy with such a long and well documented track record of discriminating remarks? Why would  a woman, Muslim or Hispanic vote for him? I find it hard to believe that they dislike the establishment so much that they are willing to let that slide. What am I missing?

If it's really against elitism, why vote for a guy who's tax plans revolve around making the rich richer and the poor poorer?

The vast majority of people didn't, but for the ones who did, it's important to consider their lack of information. Most people are too busy working and hustling to survive American Capitalism to watch CNN or read the New York Times, and tons of people actively avoid the news because it's been disgusting. Instead, they just hear the talking points and promises in the quick news summarizes on the radio they play at the start of the ad break in between songs, as they drive to their second job, and Trump had "job" and "fuck NAFTA" to fill that space, and Clinton had "I'm not Trump I guess", and that latter message just fucking sucked as far as getting people to do the work and take the risk to go vote for her instead.

[blackdog]

This guy point is basically the concept that lead in Italy to the incredible rise of an alternative, "indie" if you like, party (they call themselves movement) that has a third of the parliament seats and a mayor in the capital… in something like 8 years, when they started by simply meeting up in local groups to discuss change and politics, organising via Meetup.

 This might be a call to change and get people active

[FrieChamp]

9 hours ago, blackdog said:

This guy point is basically the concept that lead in Italy to the incredible rise of an alternative, "indie" if you like, party (they call themselves movement) that has a third of the parliament seats and a mayor in the capital… in something like 8 years, when they started by simply meeting up in local groups to discuss change and politics, organising via Meetup.

 This might be a call to change and get people active

This guy got some strange analogies but there is truth in his message. I am hoping for the American political system and people that now parties beyond the Democrats and Republicans finally begin to gain traction and voters get more choice than the two established parties (without throwing their vote away).

[-HP-]

Meanwhile in china

 

[Skybex]

 

[D3ads]

On 14/11/2016 at 10:35 PM, blackdog said:

This guy point is basically the concept that lead in Italy to the incredible rise of an alternative, "indie" if you like, party (they call themselves movement) that has a third of the parliament seats and a mayor in the capital… in something like 8 years, when they started by simply meeting up in local groups to discuss change and politics, organising via Meetup.

 This might be a call to change and get people active

Here's another Black guy on Trump's victory:

For everyone who's head is still spinning in the aftermath of all this, still struggling to make sense of what just happened, look no further than this article:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

It long but worth it, it explains everything in detail from the media's bias in articles to putting Trump's controversial statements within the context of the original speeches made. It highlights how easy it is to produce propaganda if you just take a statement without providing the background behind it like his comments about Mexicans. It shows that Trump never said anything bad about black people or LGBT rights despite what whiney liberals have said. Just the facts people...

Edited November 19, 2016 by D3ads

[blackdog]

It's a fact that he said that "some Mexican" immigrants are "good people", while the others are thieves and rapists.

There's no extrapolating there.

It's the same kind of thing that far right parties in Italy used to say about Albanians, and that to "stop the invasion" we should shoot to sink down the boats 

Edited November 21, 2016 by blackdog

[D3ads]

No that's not what he said, read the article:

Quote

6. What about Trump’s “drugs and crime” speech about Mexicans?

Trump said that:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

Note how totally non-racist this statement is. I’m serious. It’s anti-illegal-immigrant. But in terms of race, it’s saying Latinos (like every race) include both good and bad people, and the bad people are the ones coming over here. It suggests a picture of Mexicans as including some of the best people – but those generally aren’t the ones who are coming illegally.

He's not talking about every Mexican, he's talking about the illegals that come over the border, emphasis on "illegal" immigrants, a lot of them bring crime with them but it is likely that in amongst those coming in are decent people who just want a better life. He could have worded it better, but when put into context, it isn't as bad as it sounds and that's probably why Hispanic/Latino votes jumped up so much. I must admit that I saw this in the media and took it as it was without actually doing my own fact checking on it, as many many other people and that's why the media narrative was so skewed!

[Sprony]

Thank you to everybody for answering my questions. Plus, a big shout out to @D3ads. That was an excellent article. The more I read about this, the more I realize I don't know dick. Came across this today:

 

[Jetsetlemming]

On 11/19/2016 at 6:58 PM, D3ads said:

No that's not what he said, read the article:

He's not talking about every Mexican, he's talking about the illegals that come over the border, emphasis on "illegal" immigrants, a lot of them bring crime with them but it is likely that in amongst those coming in are decent people who just want a better life. He could have worded it better, but when put into context, it isn't as bad as it sounds and that's probably why Hispanic/Latino votes jumped up so much. I must admit that I saw this in the media and took it as it was without actually doing my own fact checking on it, as many many other people and that's why the media narrative was so skewed!

lol I'm sure that guy might think the statement isn't racist, but it's still totally insulting bullshit. "illegal immigrants" aren't "sent" by anybody and they come because the economy of rural Mexico has been completely decimated by NAFTA: As American factory jobs move to Mexico City (briefly before shutting down again and moving to Asia), heavily subsidized American farms are impossible to compete with without import fees, and so farms all across Mexico have gone bankrupt and gotten foreclosed on, and the farmers and their hands are all unemployed, starving (since they've lost their farms and income and can't afford the cheap-for-the-city but expensive-if-you're-broke American food), and thus forced to go north and work for those American farms that put them out of business. That's what "illegal immigration" is: The movement of people responding to the free movement of capital putting them out of work. 

Or at least, that's one side of it. The other side is people, mostly children, fleeing gang and drug violence in places like Columbia and Guatemala, drugs grown to be sold in America (and they're smuggled in by plane and boat, not border crossings, btw), and gangs funded by America to fight left-wing governments.

The US has completely fucked up all of North and South America, especially South America. That's not the fault of anybody outside the rich assholes who control what the US does. Even the shitty government of Brazil can be traced back to the pre Civil War US going to war to prop up the Brazil's slaveowner class, as defending "New World" slavery was our primary foreign policy of the time.

We're a bad country, and Trump's part of that, despite claiming he's gonna fix that by blaming people who had nothing to do with it.

[blackdog]

@D3ads you are unreadable. Ill have to ignore further notifications on this topic since such posts are appalling. Too bad that when you follow friends this forums terrors you wherever they post.

[Vorontsov]

Trump won Michigan apparently. What the hell? Also people are saying it hasn't gone red since 1988.. I don't know my history on the states in the US nor do I care so it could be wrong.