POTUS 2016

[Vorontsov]

1 hour ago, Sprony said:

I would never take my wife/child or a gay friend there

You could, but probably limited to big cities like Moscow & St.Petersburg, the rest is a bit of a gamble 'cause Russians are very nationalistic and some people may frown upon you but others will welcome you

[Lizard]

4 hours ago, Vorontsov said:

He's more of an oligarch than a dictator. As for the whole Crimea thing it's a tad bit more complex than a couple of sentences but the TL;DR is that it's a response to the US geopolitical powerplay when they installed their own puppet in Ukraine. The population of Crimea is 65,3% Russian, followed by the 2nd largest group: Ukranians at 15,7%. They also tried holding a legal referendum to stay with Ukraine, join Russia, or leave both and become independent and joining Russia was the one that won most overwhelming, followed by some small amount of "become independent" and then last join Ukraine. Naturally this referendum was said to be illegal by Obama so...

REFERENDUM WAS RIGGED BY RUSSIANS !!1!
Good thing the russian part of Crimea woke up in time to vote when they saw that the new western gov is being installed.

[D3ads]

Oh boy.. where to begin..

So the "muslim ban" has been blocked by a Federal judge, I'm not sure how he has the power to overturn a presidential order but apparently he does. Anyway, there's now going to be a case heard about it all and there will be action taken deciding what happens with it, so we'll see.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how much people say it's a "muslim ban" it isn't, just saying something over and over doesn't make it so. There are many different religions in those countries as well as muslims; Christianity, Yazidism, Druze, Hinduism, Judaism (minorities and Persian jews), Zoroastrianism, Bahá'í faith etc Any ban on the citizens of those countries, descriminates against all those people. As for favouring Christians over other refugees from those countries.. why not? Christianity in the Middle East is on the verge of extinction, millions have been killed or forced to flee because of constant persecution from.. muslims. There's no point in being politically correct about it, it is what is, same goes for Jews since the Arab Israeli war. Sometime in the second half of this century, muslims will outnumber Christians around the world and their persecution in the places where Christianity began will only worsen.

Anyway back to the US, here is an interactive timeline of terrorist plots in the US since 9/11:

http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/10/a-timeline-of-73-islamist-terror-plots-since-911/

What people need to take into account is not only the ones that suceeded but those that were foiled. As you can see on the list, there are a lot that were uncovered and dismantled before they occured and the number of plots has increased dramatically in the time that Daesh established their so called caliphate. Now of course we all know more people are killed by guns in the US than terrorism but that's another discussion entirely. What you also have to take into account is just because refugees don't carry out attacks it doesn't mean their hands are clean, how many people coming in from the problem countries are grooming and radicalising those homegrown US muslims to carry out attacks on their behalf? You also have intergration problems, take into account that many muslims have not lived with jews in their home countries for many many years if at all because of aforementioned circumstances and anti-semitism is a major issue in Arab states. Btw, the only attack carried out by refugees in the US was the Boston Marathon bombing, which might have been prevented had the FBI taken notice and acted on the intel that "Enemy numero #1" Russia had warned them about. Just something to think about.

Now look.. I don't profess to have all the answers, I don't know if the immigration order is a good or bad thing but I can tell you that by starting to recognise the problem for what it is is a good start.. ie Islamic terrorism is a thing and there are significant issues with the islamic faith that simply do not occur with other religions. The majority of muslims are I'm sure perfectly good and peaceful people but when they inact violence it should be called out for what it is.. a muslim who commits terrorism is a muslim, a muslim who kills someone for insulting the Qaran is a muslim, a muslim who murders someone because they drew a picture of the prophet is a muslim. During the troubles in Northern Ireland, no one went out of their way to say the "PIRA are not catholics" so what is with the apologists for the islamist extremists? Islamic terrorists have carried out approximately 30,000 terrorist attacks globally since 9/11... Non-islamic terrorism does not even scratch that figure...

"The Bowling Green Massacre".. she meant the mass murder of US service personal in Iraq by AQ, funded by men posing as refugees living in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Anyone who is not jumping at the chance to use anything and everything to throw shit at Trump at every second can figure this out. So she made a stupid goof not unlike those made by others in office. I don't remember the media jumping all over Obama when he said the Fort Hood terror attack could have been "workplace violence" or he had visited "57 states" ... Hell Clinton claimed she had come under sniper fire when she landed in Bosnia back in the day.. which never happened, she lied but.. surprise surprise there isn't a whole fucking wikipedia page about it.

On Spicer's bs about "alternative facts" and the Inauguration crowd being the biggest ever seen.. yeah we can safely say that's bollocks but that doesn't mean everything that is being said is nonsense. When he stated that "Iran had attacked a US naval vessel" he was quickly corrected that it was a Saudi ship and he aknowledged the mistake. The ship itself was attacked by the Houthis, who are a major tribe in Yemen that are funded by.. Iran, hence the statement... yes the Houthis did the dirty work but everyone knows who is really responsible, same as with any attack by Hezbollah.

Re: McConnell...

Politicians are hypocritical assholes... News at 11.

Schwarzenegger for president? Sure, I'm down! He actually has experience as Governor of California just like Reagen did...

I think that covers most things...

Since we're discussing Ukraine for a brief period, I wont go into too much detail but It's the Ukrainian forces who started the latest round of fighting. They've been mounting a "creeping offensive" since December, advancing from Government controlled Avdiivka into and taking territory which is meant to be unclaimed by either side under the Minsk agreement. The final straw was when they advanced on rebel positions close to Mariivka (which is under DNR control according to Minsk) which resulted in a counter-attack by seperatist forces. Poroshenko must be shitting himself, he's got a 13% approval rating, politicians are robbing the country dry again and the only thing that's stopping another Euromaidan is the Donbass war, Kiev is the only one who benefits from an escalation in the conflict when Putin is looking to have the sanctions regime lifted and rebuild ties with the US. Funnily enough, since Trump spoke to Poroshenko yesterday, the fighting has stopped...

K.. I need a lie down...

Edited February 5, 2017 by D3ads

[Sprony]

I would read up about 'Check and balances', it's how the US government works. So for instance, if a president does something unconstitutional, the judicial branch can hold him accountable or overrule him. The whole point is that no one can become too powerful and everyone abides the constitution. 

Call it whatever the fuck you want, but building walls, restricting access and discriminating against entire countries and populations as a whole, creates terrorism. It doesn't stop it, it enables it. Trump and his administration are now basically acting as a recruitment agency for terrorism. But yeah Murica, let's give the world more reasons to hate us.

I'm not saying that terrorism isn't a threat and I personally have very strong feelings about the Muslim religion in general, but this is not how you fight it. I don't have the answers or solutions. But building a wall around Europe, letting all those refugees drown while we keep bombing their countries will not protect us from radicals either.

Are you seriously going to defend the sheer incompetence this administration has displayed so far? This is not a slip up. For the past two weeks almost nothing but lies have come out of that house. Plus a sheer disregard for policies, traditions, respect and even a total lack of some fucking human decency. I'm not a fragile snowflake, I'm not even an American but there's no viable excuses for the huge amount of contempt and corruption displayed so far and yes, if this was done by Obama, I too would have been this vocal.

I'll let the Ukraine thing rest, because I know little about that. 

[RaVaGe]

1 hour ago, D3ads said:

Oh boy.. where to begin..

So the "muslim ban" has been blocked by a Federal judge, I'm not sure how he has the power to overturn a presidential order but apparently he does.

No need to make a rant, you lost me at your first sentence.

[D3ads]

I know about Checks and Balances, that's why I was saying that there were measures in place to ensure the US does not become a dictatorship when everyone was crying Hitler. I just didn't realise that a Federal judge had such power, I thought that lay with the Supreme court. Well anyway as I said, the case will be heard now and we'll see what happens.

Ok.. here's a marine in Iraq who might be able to explain this in a better way:

He's not making a generalisation that "all Iraqi people are bad" but simply illustrating from his personal experience of actually being there that people in the country have problems. I'm sorry but I don't buy this whole stopping people who might possibly be a threat creates a threat. People who hate the US already hate the US, you either hate or you don't hate, there is no middle ground. No one with rational mind who can't travel to the US because of a temporary immigration ban is going to suddenly think to themselves that "the US hates muslims" and join a terrorist group and kill people. That's just nonsense.

Most of those people drowning in the med right now are migrants who come from places like Eritrea, Ethiopia etc yeah sure those countries are not exactly great but how is that our issue? The more people that leave said countries, the less there are to actually change them around. There's only so many times places like Zimbabwe can blame all the problems on colonalism.. you've been independent for 50 years for goodness sake, time to wake up and take responsibility for the actions that have made your country what it is. I can agree with anyone that the US (and our) meddling in many conflicts in the Middle East have not exactly made us friends with them anyway like you've pointed out. I've often talked about the blanket support of "rebels" in Syria being one of many. Still.. the region wasn't exactly a utopia before we stuck our noses in anyway...

" but this is not how you fight it."

"I don't have the answers or solutions. "

You've kinda contradicted yourself here.. I'm not having a go or anything but yeah.. like I said, I have no answers or solutions either but an administration that recognises the threat for what it is, is a good start.

No I can see there's a lot of nonsense coming out of the administration, heck I heard plenty of nonsense coming out of the Obama administration just in a different way. Still.. the hysteria over "Bowling Green massacre" and such is hyperbole, this isn't the first time that kind of thing has happened as I've pointed out.

A lot of this is still that the media, the DNC etc don't understand how "their side" lost the election and they can't deal with it so they're lashing out at absolutely everything no matter what it is...

22 minutes ago, RaVaGe said:

No need to make a rant, you lost me at your first sentence.

Right.. because I am not American and I do not know the ins and outs of every single part of the US government/Justice system? Trust me, many Americans I know do not understand this either and they're far from being stupid nor did they vote for Trump.

Edited February 5, 2017 by D3ads

[RaVaGe]

25 minutes ago, D3ads said:

Right.. because I am not American and I do not know the ins and outs of every single part of the US government/Justice system? Trust me, many Americans I know do not understand this either and they're far from being stupid nor did they vote for Trump.

Are you aware that this is how it works like everywhere ? Justice has to be divided from government for obvious reasons. You may end up with a despot otherwise.

[D3ads]

11 minutes ago, RaVaGe said:

Are you aware that this is how it works like everywhere ? Justice has to be divided from government for obvious reasons. You may end up with a despot otherwise.

Of course, my specific point is being unaware that a Federal judge from Washington can override an EO for the whole of the states but as I understand it it is simply a temporary order pending a hearing on the case at the appeals court. I have been told that only congress can completely overturn an EO, but allow me to read up so I can come back to it again...

[Sprony]

He's in a country who's been attacked under a false pretext. A country that's been decimated in 8 long years of war and then basically left in chaos and consumed by civil war ever since. All because of 'white' interference and we're supposed to be surprised that we're not welcome? There's a big difference between being invaded and going out to do terrorist attacks. 

It's not nonsense. There are people who have helped the US, turned on their own and who are now left out. There are people with multiple passports, who have nothing to do with any of this, but are still affected just because it's their country of origin. I'm not saying that those people will start blowing themselves up but it sends a pretty clear signal. The US betrays you, the US hates Muslims, etc. How much easier do you think it is for recruiters to radicalize Muslims if a government acts this way? You are giving them the tools. Plus, the data shows how small the chance of a successful attack is with the current vetting systems in place. It's nothing more than a big FU and hate always leads to more hate.

You can't compare centuries of oppression and extortion due to colonialism to 50 years of freedom. Most of the problems are still caused by us or are the aftermath of our history there. Sure, people need to take responsibility and no, I'm not saying they are all innocent. But the situation is far more complicated than what we can describe in a couple of sentences.

Actually, I disagree. I'm not contradicting myself. I'm really sure about what I explained above. I merely stated that I don't have the answers or solutions to whole terrorism issue as whole

I agree that the media certainly goes all out on everything little thing, but still, what's been happening is pretty fucking serious and not comparable to Obama in the slightest.

Looks as though we have our politics forum back!

[Lizard]

1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

Are you aware that this is how it works like everywhere ? Justice has to be divided from government for obvious reasons. You may end up with a despot otherwise.

Sure man. This is how it works LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

[RaVaGe]

17 hours ago, Lizard said:

Sure man. This is how it works LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

Well, in the civilised countries ofc

[twiz]

So long Flynn.  Puzder just withdrew his nomination for DOL.  Who's next?

I like how most of the Republicans are all huffy and puffy about the fact Flynn's lying got leaked to the media.  Same guys who said nothing about a foreign state hacking our officials and leaking that information, including classified documents.  Oh wait that's because it was concerning HRC.  NOW they get all butthurt about a leak.

The fact that the president has known about this for a few weeks now and just happened to do something about it immediately after it got leaked... Yeah, awesome.

[spa]

8 hours ago, twiz said:

I like how most of the Republicans are all huffy and puffy about the fact Flynn's lying got leaked to the media.  Same guys who said nothing about a foreign state hacking our officials and leaking that information, including classified documents.  Oh wait that's because it was concerning HRC.  NOW they get all butthurt about a leak.

Add to this that Trump asked the russians to hack her emails in front of the press and that republicans have stated that those leaks were "good, because they revealed the truth".

oh the hypocrisy..

[-HP-]

8 hours ago, twiz said:

The fact that the president has known about this for a few weeks now and just happened to do something about it immediately after it got leaked... Yeah, awesome.

Yeap, leaked by someone inside the White House itself, and published by the NY times, the same NY times he absolutely despises and keeps saying they're "fake news".

It's been 3 weeks man.. it feels like 3 years. I try to disconnect off of political news, but it bombards you in the face constantly. It is very disconcerting what's going on

 

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, (HP) said:

Yeap, leaked by someone inside the White House itself, and published by the NY times, the same NY times he absolutely despises and keeps saying they're "fake news".

It's been 3 weeks man.. it feels like 3 years. I try to disconnect off of political news, but it bombards you in the face constantly. It is very disconcerting what's going on

 

Maybe he tries to tire people so much they won't listen anymore so as to do his shit unencumbered ?