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MaanMan

EU Referendum

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I always saying that EU should be only an economic alliance. Where free market is really free and flow of the goods is not unsettled. When they started to interfere in internal policies of EU members it was set to fail. More than 75% of polish law is made by the european commision. You think this is a democracy but I did not vote for any european commissioner and so do you guys. It's an illusion for all the people thinking they can do something for Europe.
For me free market and flow of the goods between the members of EU should be the only reason for EU to exist. Right now we are living in a big bureaucracy machine. We pay those idiots to debate about gender free speech, user manuals for ladders, user manuals for wellingtons, curve of the banana and the ammount needed to flush a shit. Is this what you guys voted for ? I don't think so.

I'm EU
skeptical but I wanted BR to stay in EU since Poland is now dependent in Germany-France axis. The EU will collapse in 2 - 3 years with or without BR.

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I really hope that free movement of workers somehow ends up being maintained, which I think is something that Switzerland has negotiated with the EU despite existing outside of it. For me that's one of the saddest parts of this whole thing because being able to easily live around the world without incurring huge expense and/or cost is a wonderful concept. It'd also be an entertaining blow to the segment of 'out' voters who are basically just a bit racist.

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The EU in its current form just reminds me a lot of the Fifa and IOC, down to this faux facade of humanitarianism and progressiveness. But what people need to understand is that everything in such an institution is designed to line someones pockets. People on the left get blinded by the immigration issue just as much as people on the right. I mention this because it was THE big topic for Brexit apparently. Merkel or Juncker don't give a shit about human rights or those refugees. They want two things: 1) a divided and thereby easily controllable and manipulable population 2) cheap labour.

The real tragedy of happenings such as this Brexit is that it highlights how little people are able to identify the elephant in the room. There is no strive for finding a consensus or common ground anymore. Everyone only looks for what the others do and opposes it, no matter what.

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22 minutes ago, Steppenwolf said:

People on the left get blinded by the immigration issue just as much as people on the right. I mention this because it was THE big topic for Brexit apparently. Merkel or Juncker don't give a shit about human rights or those refugees. They want two things: 1) a divided and thereby easily controllable and manipulable population 2) cheap labour.

This, sadly, is one of the more unfortunate things about the whole campaign. Immigration was the key issue, especially with the recent so called immigration crisis. But it was hardly ever talked about because both sides of the argument had to avoid the topic as the moment immigration is mentioned, the left just shout "racists" or "bigots" repeatedly to drown out any discussion. So no true discussion on the topic was had and most people were left with information they read in outside sources (often either fear mongering or unrealistic idealism) or what they might see locally.

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I can see and understand both sides to leave and remain, but the day I allow Fucking Farage a victory sitting down is the day I've given up on the idea of humanity making progress.

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30 minutes ago, Skybex said:

This, sadly, is one of the more unfortunate things about the whole campaign. Immigration was the key issue, especially with the recent so called immigration crisis. But it was hardly ever talked about because both sides of the argument had to avoid the topic as the moment immigration is mentioned, the left just shout "racists" or "bigots" repeatedly to drown out any discussion. So no true discussion on the topic was had and most people were left with information they read in outside sources (often either fear mongering or unrealistic idealism) or what they might see locally.

Same thing is happening here in Germany. We have no open discussion about the EU itself even tho there would be so much that many people from all sides could agree on, particularely with TTIP and such nonsense on the horizon. Instead the conversation has been distilled down to pro or con immigration.

This leads to some truly amazing and grotesque real life satire. For instance when important people in the left party start parroting what industry lobbyist say about the importance of economic growth, lack of skilled workers etc. when traditionally they should be the ones trying to keep the neoliberal agenda in check.

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Maybe a leave of this magnitude was required to trigger some needed change in the union. I understand that people don't like a lot with how the EU works, seems when I read the news, every week there's a EU-law or directive that doesn't fit too well with something here, or feels very unnecessary.

In Sweden EU-laws are superior to Swedish national laws, with some few exceptions, it's even written in our constitution that we are a member of the EU and the constitution is in many ways adopted to fit well into the EU and how it works. I read a number, it was quiet some while ago though, that up to 25% of all new laws passed in Sweden is influenced by EU-laws and adopted to work with the EU.

 

As for it being immigration that was the key factor, I'm sure it was, it always is - always will be. Throughout history - everywhere and here. It's an unsolvable issue, cause famine, starvation and war will always happen somewhere and we can't stop famine, starvation and war. I think it's a dissolution to think that immigration is solvable to the extent so that everyone is happy. It's better just to accept and live with it.

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12 hours ago, Hipshot said:

In Sweden EU-laws are superior to Swedish national laws, with some few exceptions, it's even written in our constitution that we are a member of the EU and the constitution is in many ways adopted to fit well into the EU and how it works.

Afaik it should be because of the Lisboa pact in 2007.

And to be fair, if we are to create a union of states, that's the way to go.

Unfortunately, compared to the US that we try to imitate, we have centuries of legislation and very very different cultures, whereas the US was being created by like minded people who, spoke only one language for starters (dunno if French did matter).

A lot of legislation wouldn't happen at all and certain important topics would never be regulated: I work in the environmental sector and my colleagues (teachers) are now concerned not only about what they'll teach in two years (the programs they run are EU based) but that most environment protection laws in UK come from EU, and I'm worried what a deregulation could do to this beautiful country. In Italy we are destroying everything in favour of building houses and factories, I would hate see that happen here.

PS: "Brexit, a still life"

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