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Quake Champions


Sprony
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2 hours ago, Radu said:

Has anyone followed this recently? My interest dropped as I couldn't really play it. For some reason it took 5 minutes to launch the game and connect/disconnect to any servers. Hopefully they'll fix that. There seems to be a championship right now. @Sprony ?

No man, I'm done fighting with the Bethesda launcher. I'll wait for the Steam release.

But yeah, there's currently a Championship going on. The finals are going to be held at QuakeCon.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Initial impressions

  • Fuckin' lag. I've set my location options to find servers in the EU and Russia, but either due to bugginess or a lack of servers, I always end up connecting to a US server and get ping spikes >500. Normally I'll be hovering at around 50-80, at which point it's a fun blast.
  • Fuckin' UI. I don't know who designs the UI's at ID these days, but they're always an abominable cluster-fuck. It's great that I can click on a big red "Play" button to get right in to the action, but everything else of any value seems to be hidden ten clicks deep.
  • No bots. As soon as the server problem gets fixed this won't bother me so much. I do like bots though.
  • That tutorial level! WTF? Who thought it would be Quakey or even remotely fun and rewarding to kill giant coloured bubbles? And why did I have to connect to a server to play it!?
  • I love the maps I've played so far.
  • I love the movement physics, again when lag permits.
  • I'm not entirely sold on all the guns. The railgun feels a little flakey at the moment and I don't really "get" the one that flings a volley of exploding darts. Why is there no grenade launcher? The rocket launcher needs to feel a bit more meaty too.
  • Pink quad damage? Really? Did that come from the same person who brought us big fluffy tutorial bubbles?

I'm probably being a bit harsh because of point #1. All in all I think it's on the right track to render Quake Live redundant, as long as they release a solid level editor.

Edited by text_fish
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The game is balanced decently and fun to play, and has basically replaced Quake Live for me. Dueling is fun and still feels very psychological like Q3A/QL. The biggest issue is the stuttering that I seem to get, even on lowest settings. I'm also really worried that there won't be a map editor, as has been the case for most games this generation and is such a huge reason for Quake's popularity. It's a really sad trend that I hope they can break, as I probably would've never bought Quake if it wasn't for mods and custom maps.

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  1. Collision is poorly implemented, many doors feel about 5 units too narrow - and they have used the actual polygons of the models in the environment for collision instead of creating a collision mesh through optimisation.
  2. Graphics are clearly 512-1024 texture size, but that's understandable as this game is about speed not pretty graphics.
  3. Matches always seem one-sided, you either pwn completely, with members on the other team rage-quitting - or members of your team rage-quit due to unbalanced teams and you spend the rest of the match being chased by 4 players all with stacked loadouts. You either stick it out / grin it and bear it, or you quit yourself to fight another day.
  4. Spawns are either death-traps, surrounded by an over-powered opposition, or you spawn too far from the action and are left to humble-bumble, trying to find pickups before finding the opposition, who are typically camping the QD or RL.
  5. RL is OP on every map, so everyone camps its spawn location.
  6. The maps in very broad and general terms feel the wrong size, with an extraordinarily narrow path through each level, making the slightest deviation from that path a deathtrap, by either stopping you dead in your tracks, or slowing you down - none of the maps feel intuitive as of this date 25-08-17 - many kills for players who are just bumping into walls and doors and have no forward momentum, therefore get killed easily. This proves unsatisfying, as it is nigh impossible to be absolutely certain that kills are the result of hard work and effort in attack/guard/act/react or, just bad luck on the other player.
  7. Tactics therefore seem irrelevant.

 

Overall, with about 250 hours so far on this game, I am not impressed - they have produced an unsatisfying mess of a game, with little replay beyond appealing to fans of the original, yet not taking the game forward and so, there is nothing here to please a fan, as they can play quake live and enjoy the game to a greater extent than this incarnation.

If they fix the collision detection via optimisation, improve the spawn locations and make the classes more interesting, they might have something - but as for now they do not, yet I feel as if they are not going to address the key issues of playing the game and have "done an Epic" by releasing something purely for fans of the original, and not thought on how to move the game forwards at all in the slightest: á la Unreal Tournament 4 Alpha.

 

C+ Must try harder.

 

I doubt they will ever produce a level editor as it looks as if it came straight outta Maya. This is a shame, but understandable, as if they were to do this (release an editor) the community (Mapcore!) would create levels which remove the inherent problems this game currently has in its level design...

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17 hours ago, Mitch Mitchell said:

I doubt they will ever produce a level editor

I dunno. I kinda assumed the move away from idTech was because everyone complains mega-textures are too hard for the community to make. That might be a bad assumption though, I have been known to make them on an almost daily basis.

To be honest, if they released  some maya plugins and a bit of documentation I wouldn't mind learning to use Maya. It's obviously important for devs to support modding communities, but we also have a duty to ourselves to keep up with modern level design standards.

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3 hours ago, text_fish said:

I dunno. I kinda assumed the move away from idTech was because everyone complains mega-textures are too hard for the community to make. That might be a bad assumption though, I have been known to make them on an almost daily basis.

To be honest, if they released some maya plugins and a bit of documentation I wouldn't mind learning to use Maya. It's obviously important for devs to support modding communities, but we also have a duty to ourselves to keep up with modern level design standards.

 

My honest opinion is they will not, and adding to your point, I wouldn't be interested in using Maya to level design with, as far as I am concerned; Maya is not a level design tool - it's an 3D environment art toolbox.

Radiant is a LDT, and Radiant is also not a 3D environment toolbox.

 

That said...bethesda do like community mods, except Doom MP had snap-map, which although novel, was very limiting for level design.

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If they don't release an editor they might as well give up right now. They're in it for the long haul. They want a e-Sports future. Looks at the previous Quake's and their mp maps. Most 'pro' played maps weren't made by id, they were made by the community. 

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4 hours ago, Sprony said:

If they don't release an editor they might as well give up right now. They're in it for the long haul. They want a e-Sports future. Looks at the previous Quake's and their mp maps. Most 'pro' played maps weren't made by id, they were made by the community. 

Exactly. If they truly see this as a new Quake game, then they will release an editor.

5 hours ago, Mitch Mitchell said:

 

 I wouldn't be interested in using Maya to level design with, as far as I am concerned; Maya is not a level design tool - it's an 3D environment art toolbox.

Radiant is a LDT, and Radiant is also not a 3D environment toolbox.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think this is kind of an outdated way of thinking. The line between environment art and level design is pretty blurry, especially in the community scene. Many community mappers wear both hats out of necessity. Mappers have never been exempt from making their maps look good, and times have changed. We simply can't keep up with the quality standards with basic bsp tools. That doesn't mean it's impossible for them to implement robust geo tools or a modular mesh kit, but the reality is that making a complete art-passed map in 2017 (even in brush based engines) might mean you'll have to use some form of modeling tool.

Edited by nikkoship
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23 hours ago, nikkoship said:

I get what you're saying, but I think this is kind of an outdated way of thinking. The line between environment art and level design is pretty blurry, especially in the community scene. Many community mappers wear both hats out of necessity. Mappers have never been exempt from making their maps look good, and times have changed. We simply can't keep up with the quality standards with basic bsp tools. That doesn't mean it's impossible for them to implement robust geo tools or a modular mesh kit, but the reality is that making a complete art-passed map in 2017 (even in brush based engines) might mean you'll have to use some form of modelling tool.

 

Strongly disagree, this can be scripted like this:

  1. Create BSP level, playtest the hell out of it until it shines like the tower of the pharaohs.
  2. Apply a script-aware texture/material to walls, floors, ceilings, windows, doors and differentiate between outside and inside.
  3. Apply script to map/level
  4. Script asks where the walls, floors, ceilings, windows and door meshes are - trims are assumptive.
  5. Script auto-populates level with said meshes, keeping inside the 'dimensions' of the BSP Geometry.
  6. Script has a 'seed' to RNG the usage of meshes for variety.
  7. Profit.

So, all you need are the meshes and trims and let the script figure it out and kit-bash the stuff together for you. No need to model anything, and the environment artist stays in the basement where they belong :) If you really think about, it's just a big look-up table.

This is actually something I'm looking into right now with Unreal Engine 4...that engine is like Microsoft Excel, in that the money people will make from it is much larger than the cost of the application, the scope of Unreal Engine is immense, and soon will shall have VRay...

 

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