[CS:GO]

[Michael Greenwood]

a

Edited May 17, 2016 by Michael Greenwood

[RivFader]

There is another map on the workshop with the same name, though it is quite old. I remember it having a sort of Rapture-like theme. You may want to change the name of your map.

[Klassic]

It's very dark in the map, please change this...

[RealaxFourX]

On 5/11/2016 at 2:37 PM, Klassic said:

It's very dark in the map, please change this...

Adding light_environment will fix it. Also, I would suggest changing the dust2 skybox, as it looks very dull and overused.

[Michael Greenwood]

There is a light env in the map (otherwise there wouldn't be any light at all), it is just the default one because it really doesn't matter yet. The skybox also really isn't something one should be committing to within the greybox stage so it is also set to the default. 

[RealaxFourX]

11 minutes ago, Michael Greenwood said:

There is a light env in the map (otherwise there wouldn't be any light at all), it is just the default one because it really doesn't matter yet. The skybox also really isn't something one should be committing to within the greybox stage so it is also set to the default. 

Mine is default also, the only thing I changed is it's ambient and glowing colour and everything works perfectly. In your level it looks as it would be very cloudy and at evening.

[Michael Greenwood]

1 minute ago, RealaxFourX said:

Mine is default also, the only thing I changed is it's ambient and glowing colour and everything works perfectly. In your level it looks as it would be very cloudy and at evening.

Sorry, I meant that I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't think it is necessary at this point as I am doing the initial round of layout fine tuning at the moment. Once I have fixed the glaring problems with sightlines, OP spots, etc, then I will start on the styling, lighting etc.

[RealaxFourX]

Just now, Michael Greenwood said:

Sorry, I meant that I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't think it is necessary at this point as I am doing the initial round of layout fine tuning at the moment. Once I have fixed the glaring problems with sightlines, OP spots, etc, then I will start on the styling, lighting etc.

Even though I agree, that it doesn't help you in finding layout mistakes, but it should be noted that light_env gives a good idea how your level will look like and it gives a real life touch, plus it only takes 20-40 seconds to add it. So why not?

[Michael Greenwood]

I was originally going to go for a dark and grimy look like so:

Spoiler

(hence the left bombsite looking very similar to this). The problem, as I'm sure many of you can guess, is that dark colors and grimy light make player models super hard to see. Nuke, season, cache etc work so well visually because they are very bright/white/contrasting at player height making enemies easier to see. This throws a bit of a damper into my theme plan and I'm thinking the initial theme could still work (water based research facility) but go for a sleek clean look and give atmosphere with lighting rather than dark textures.  

[jackophant]

On 13/05/2016 at 9:28 AM, Michael Greenwood said:

Sorry, I meant that I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't think it is necessary at this point as I am doing the initial round of layout fine tuning at the moment. Once I have fixed the glaring problems with sightlines, OP spots, etc, then I will start on the styling, lighting etc.

Lighting is always important and at this early stage is really not very hard to fix. 

Getting the lighting "acceptable" will help you see what you're doing and give some good shadows.

If you can't even accept feedback on light or put the minimal effort in to fix it, it doesn't give much confidence in listening to much more important feedback.

[RivFader]

Once again, you should probably reconsider the name:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=174733350

[Michael Greenwood]

1 hour ago, jackophant said:

Lighting is always important and at this early stage is really not very hard to fix. 

Getting the lighting "acceptable" will help you see what you're doing and give some good shadows.

If you can't even accept feedback on light or put the minimal effort in to fix it, it doesn't give much confidence in listening to much more important feedback.

Are you kidding me? "Can't even accept feedback"? Where did you pull that crap from? I agreed that it was something that needed to be fixed (and have fixed it in my dev build) but that it isn't the feedback I am aiming for at the moment. I can't help but feel you're being a dick just to be a dick at this point. I'm done with this community 

 

[cashed]

Wow this was poorly handled. Giving demands is not feedback. Saying how things are easy is also not encouraging. 

[[N]awbie]

Well that escalated rather quickly

[Radix]

Well, I don't really remember the original post, so the following is not about Michael Greenwood's map specifically.

But in general I noticed that in the last time many people post their (too) early greybox maps. What do you expect from it? Do you really think that someone would play a map (where pretty much everything is bad) for a couple of hours in order to give a qualified feedback? Would you do this for anybody else?

Surprisingly some people of this amazing community still take their time and look at the pictures/layout, maybe even play the map if available. The result is - of course - often negative feedback. Things which you would have noticed if you cared about your own map.

Every early greybox map is bad in the beginning. That's normal. You can't expect positive feedback when pretty much everything is bad. And you can't create something good without making mistakes! So make your mistakes, then try to fix them, then post your stuff.

I'm probably not the one to give advice, because I'm not really good at making maps.

But I suggest:

1. Make your first greybox.

2. Play it ffs. (with bots) (until you find something that you don't like)

3. Change what you don't like.

4. Play again.

5. (...)

As soon as you are happy with your map, start with the architecture mock up, so that you get an idea how the map could look like after detailing.

THEN it's maybe time to get some feedback from other guys to get aware of things you didn't notice etc.

Then you will probably get better and more qualified/useful feedback. And it won't end up frustrating with mostly bad comments like in this thread...

 

On the other hand I often don't like how some people talk about other people's maps.

It's often like "do this and that", "this looks bad/boring/...", ...

If you give feedback, try to stick to some simple rules:

1. Start with something positive.

2. If you want to criticize something, try to use terms like "I think that..." or "I would change this...". Your critique is still just your opinion and you might be wrong (as well) even if you are the godfather of level design himself.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Radix