[CS:GO] de_Cuba

[Shibou]

Hello everyone,

I am currently working on a classic defusal map. Its working title is de_Cuba as it is going to be situated in a small village in Cuba. (Alternately it could have been a mediterranean village, but that has been overly used in my opinion.)

Workshop:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=650117709

Some fictional background story:

The age of mutual animosity between Cuba and the US vanishes and the two states are progressing on ther course of harmonisation. A delegation from the US goverment is visiting Cuba to talk about some future economic help. Their trail will led through the small village of [[Insert map name here]]. Some separatistes that are not very happy about the new political changes in their country try to sabotage the new friendship between the US and their own country by placing some explosives at the designated routes of the US delegation. Fortunately the Police somehow found out about their plans and is trying to stop them...

 

Map description:

It will be composed very classic with a deadly mid, which can be seen directly from T-Spawn yet not reached by a short route, as the way will be blocked by some fences. I am not yet sure if it'll be a backyard, alley or a garden but I'd like it to be fast paced so that a clash between Ts and CTs can start there immediately.

Of course the clash will be a bit delayed if the teams will head for A or B instead of mid. Right now my biggest Concerns are aout complexity of the map, thats why i tried to simplified A and let B remain a bit more complex. As the Mid in its original state seemed to be highly T-Sided i decided to add a snipers nest at the top of mid, that can only be reached from B where CTs approach first. However the snipers nest can only be reached with a certain delay so the suppoert the CTs can deliver there is having a limited value if there team mates just rush in at mid and die there to quick. The SN is supposed to be not reachable by street level on mid.

Some reference pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/w5B3Z

 

I'd apprechiate all suggestions and advises before i go to greybox the map.

Thank you all alot in advance!

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Shibou
added link to reference pictures; added WS-link

[BazzlingDalls]

Layout looks great and once you've greyboxed would love to see screenshots

[Quotingmc]

Seems a little over complicated. Remember to keep it simple.

[laminutederire]

I'd try to simplify redundant paths. For instance on the A part of the map, you have the T drop and a connector which lead in the A side - mid connector that could be simplified with only one route instead of two. Or maybe the first embranchement to B, it is going in parallel of the start of mid, and that's something you could imagine simplifying, making people go through the beginning of mid to go to B

[Shibou]

Thank you so far for your feedback. It shows me, that i wasnt too wrong with my concerns about complexity...

I'd try to simplify redundant paths. For instance on the A part of the map, you have the T drop and a connector which lead in the A side - mid connector that could be simplified with only one route instead of two. Or maybe the first embranchement to B, it is going in parallel of the start of mid, and that's something you could imagine simplifying, making people go through the beginning of mid to go to B

If I understand you right you'd completely remove the T-Drop path and change the route from court to B-Main by shifting it's entrance position more towards mid.

[Klassic]

Rotation will be a BIG problem as it seems in the layout

[laminutederire]

Thank you so far for your feedback. It shows me, that i wasnt too wrong with my concerns about complexity...

If I understand you right you'd completely remove the T-Drop path and change the route from court to B-Main by shifting it's entrance position more towards mid.

I didn't see th non walkable area when I saw the overview on my phone, so I wanted to suggest to remove it, but you already did:

So I'll be saying almsot the same as you with that:

Edited March 6, 2016 by laminutederire

[Lykrast]

While I can't really judge the map properly by its layout alone, it does seems quite interesting, and I'll look forward to it. However, before I can really say anything about my complains, I need to know if the stairs that links Connector and Upper Mid goes down to Connector (kinda like Mirage's tunnels) or up to Connector.

Also, I would suggest 2 things to improve the readability :

• Add an arrow near each stairs, pointing towars what part is up
• Grey out the fenced area between Upper Mid and T Spawn, to make it a tiny bit more obvious that it's not accessible

[Shibou]

Thanks to your suggestions I made some modifications to the layout.

• The T-Drop has been completely, removed.
• the Connection between Court and B-Main has now ben moved further towards main, which should also reduce the rotations times from B over Mid to A
• the whole lower part of the Map has been shrinked to reduce Timings of the Ts aswell as the exaggerated rotation time when taling the (senseless) path over T-Spawn
• Th Garden Area has been simplified

All non walkable areas are now shown in the map and the direction of raising stairs are indicated by arrows for easier understanding of the layout.

What else can be done to improve the layout?

Thank you all again very much!

 

[Logic]

If you can't access Gardens upper area or the very right side of T-spawn, it probably shouldn't be on the layout  The area in the middle is understandable.

I worry that many pathways are very narrow and could cause blocking and hard areas to attack from as T's. Can't really tell if this is the case without some screenshots of the map though, you should add some

[Shibou]

If you can't access Gardens upper area or the very right side of T-spawn, it probably shouldn't be on the layout  The area in the middle is understandable.

I worry that many pathways are very narrow and could cause blocking and hard areas to attack from as T's. Can't really tell if this is the case without some screenshots of the map though, you should add some

Yes you are right about the narrow paths. The minimum width for an interior path should not be less than the apps on de_inferno. Otherwise you'll block each other everywhere.

[Shibou]

I started a first greyboxing, based on layout v0.3c. RIght now i can confirm Logics concerns about narrow paths, but that can be solved  easily.

I am a bit more worried about rotation timings. A Rotation from B --> B-Main --> Min --> Connector --> A takes 18 seconds.

Direct rotation from B --> CT-Ssawn --> A takes about 12 seconds.

The longest possible rotation from A --> A-Main --> T-Spawn --> B-Main --> B takes 24 seconds. Of course noone would chose this path under normal circumstances, yet all these times appear a bit long to me.

Would you suggest simplifiying the Bombsite for easier take/retake or shortenen rotationtimes by positionig the site mre into the middle of the layout?

[Lykrast]

I think 12 seconds for a direct rotation from CT spawn is ok, but for the T side of thing maybe you could reposition the sites to be more in the middle as you said.

The best thing I can tell you to do though is to measure the rotation time of active duty maps yourself (I could have done it for you but I don't have time yet, maybe I'll edit the post later to add them), and see if you think you're close enough or not.

Another thing you could do is run around your greybox and see if any area feels like it doesn't do much, or if some corridors feel really weird to navigate, that's a good way to know (at least for me) if some areas could use to be sightly redone/reduced in size.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Lykrast

[Logic]

Right now i can confirm Logic's concerns about narrow paths, but that can be solved easily.

I am a bit more worried about rotation timings. A Rotation from B --> B-Main --> Min --> Connector --> A takes 18 seconds.

Direct rotation from B --> CT-Ssawn --> A takes about 12 seconds.

The longest possible rotation from A --> A-Main --> T-Spawn --> B-Main --> B takes 24 seconds. Of course noone would chose this path under normal circumstances, yet all these times appear a bit long to me.

Would you suggest simplifiying the Bombsite for easier take/retake or shortenen rotationtimes by positionig the site mre into the middle of the layout?

If you're measuring from site-to-site (like, actually standing on the site at start/end) then that's actually a really good time for the shortest route. 12 seconds is similar to Mirage, Dust 2, Cobblestone and Overpass.

As for the other times I don't think that they are too long. That said, it looks like it will take a long time for T's to rotate unless they have control of mid. This is probably fine, but keep it in mind so that you don't make it longer somehow. I think you could successfully squish T-spawn closer to mid without impacting the timings that much if you wan't to shorten the rotation time a bit  

One thing that I personally don't like is the placement of A-site. It feels squished into the corner and probably won't allow many angles to defend from in an after-plant scenario. It'd be nice with a more open site on A since B is kinda cornered as well.

These are just my thoughts and concerns, do with them as you please  

[jackophant]

What else can be done to improve the layout?

Getting it built so we can see it.

A lot of people are doing this atm, building overly intricate radars and asking for feedback. Yes, some stuff can be obvious, but this is like looking at the schematics for a car: you can plan as much as you want, but until you've got a production prototype you can't tweak it to be better.

You've got what looks like a fairly solid radar so let's see you make it.

Edited March 9, 2016 by jackophant