[Question] In-Game Editor Level Design

[Greg D'Alessandro]

I have a few questions regarding In-game editors for level design:

My goal: Building my portfolio:

• publish multiplayer maps and get a solid player-base for my level design portfolio.
• Include create breakdowns, descriptions, top-downs of maps, flow,  and other info for developing my levels.

My plan: 

• Initially focus and greatly improve on multiplayer level design, and try to create/publish popular (highly downloaded/played) maps for games/mods and try to get a solid playerbase. I would like to focus on Halo 5, but I don't know if I should focus on CS:GO instead.
• Then I will practice singleplayer level design in several engines (UE4, Unity, Skyrim Creation Kit, Hammer, Source). [I am familiar with UE4 and Unity5, I consider myself at an Intermediate level for both]

My Question:

I've been told that modding and creating maps for existing games that have a lot of downloads will carry a lot of weight in a portfolio. But would using Halo 5's Forge be a waste of time for practicing level design and publishing maps? (since it is only an in-game editor) Right now I am focusing on multiplayer level design, and I feel that I can practice and improve my LD a lot in Halo 5's Forge. There is much more that you can do in it compared to previous Halo games, as it is been greatly improved/more capability. But would this be a waste of time? Should I focus on other games like CS:Go instead? (Even though I have never played that game, and I am also very experienced in competitive Halo multiplayer).

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/building-the-biggest-forge-yet

Halo 5 map community:

http://www.forgehub.com/maps/

 

Thank you.

 

[Guest]

Making the jump to Hammer might not be the best idea. Making a defuse map for csgo is incredibly time-consuming, especially as a solo project - and if you're just starting out, there is a pretty big learning curve as it is a very old toolkit. I'm personally looking to make the jump to something else after I finish my current map because it's just too much work compared to newer toolkits. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't learn hammer, I just want to warn you that it is pretty archaic. Personally I'm looking forward to the release of Fallout 4's toolkit in April-ish. 

 

Maybe your Forge maps could showcase your understanding of competitive map design and then you could make small detailed scenes in something like UE4 to show that you have a good understanding of creating levels in a more technical/advanced toolkit? (or something like that) I don't work in the industry, so this is just a thought. I definitely wouldn't say making Forge maps is a "waste of time" though. I mean yeah, if you want to do LD professionally one day then you probably are expected to know your way around some advanced toolkit, but that doesn't mean you can't still make quality maps for Halo.

Edited February 29, 2016 by nikkoship

[laminutederire]

I don't know how much that editor has changed since reach when I used it, but I remember it leaving aside the modeling and texturing part, so if you want to seriously make games after those are two things you will probably need to understand (that is if you want to do all the level yourself, which is time consuming indeed)

You can start doing things in hammer too, but you should also know that playing around in more modern game engines like UE4 or Unity (depending on what type of game you want to make) can be better to learn better how game works. At least I learned so much more in Unity creating a little game than in hammer doing maps for cs go. But I am really new to this so my point of view may not be broad enough  

Since you know UE4 and Unity, maybe try to do something for Unreal Tournament ?  (Just a conjecture, but to me cs go is dying on its old engine, while Unreal tournament should magnificently return with a lot of possibilities and players) in addition it's maybe closer to Halo gameplay than cs go.

The con is that you won't get money out of it like you can in cs go. (While operation maps literally come from the same mappers in cs go)

Good luck to you

 

[blackdog]

From my unprofessional point of view id say that level design is level design, so in-game (console) editors count. Everyone can learn how to draw brushed, but level design is placing the correct items, having the proper spaces, etc.

I'd be more concerned how to then showcase your creation (can you get screenshots and then onto a website?) I wanted to do the same thing with FC3 when I didn't have the money to buy a new PC and was stuck with an old MacBook.

@laminutederire isn't making a game much more difficult than a map? That's the reason why I haven't started using Unity/UE: you have to make a game, and if you're alone you have to lay so much groundwork before you can display your concept. Right now I guess one can only showcase FPS material working on UT.

[laminutederire]

@laminutederire isn't making a game much more difficult than a map? That's the reason why I haven't started using Unity/UE: you have to make a game, and if you're alone you have to lay so much groundwork before you can display your concept. Right now I guess one can only showcase FPS material working on UT.

it is indeed that's why I proposed at the end going for UT maps. But you learn very useful things making your own game though. You think about what the rules of the game are and what appropriate gamme mechanics you can have, and then and only then you go on making the according levels. It's good to learn what makes the current games behave the way they do. Counter strike rules are this way for specific reason and to be a great mapper you ought to know why they are this way I guess

[blackdog]

Yeah, totally agree. Just to me seems overwhelming starting like this. Maybe I should just try, I have many ideas... just they seem too big for a one-man team (I know how they say, reduce, make it small... but if one wants to make a shooter or general action game...). Luckily with scripting is possible to do loads and I'm thinking of trying anyway but... if one is having fun building maps, I'd do that. It takes so much practice to create something good. I find we are a bit in a catch-22 situation right now, as if you want to "mod", you are basically forced to use Source, but it's old and clunky and people want to move on.

@Valve ship this damn Source 2!

[clankill3r]

There is a mod for data2 to get dota2 in first person. Combine that with the dota2 tools and you might be able to already make a map in the new hammer. However, it's probably better to wait...

[blackdog]

Curious experimenting but no thanks. Also, being the tools for DOTA, could that Hammer be optimized for top-down kind of work?

[clankill3r]

What do you mean?

[blackdog]

I mean that what we've seen on Hammer for Source 2 could be specialised for terrains and not much more, like the editors that you normally see in RTS games.