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NihiL

[WIP] de_canaveral

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Hey, thanks for the input @Roald! Let me address your points:

1.) The way the basement connects to mid: I agree with everything you're saying BUT that's because I wanted it to be exactly like that! I want it to be awkward for just 1 CT to hold mid because otherwise I feel it is too simple. The way I designed the map, I would expect 1 CT on A holding the only direct entrance (outside), 1 CT in A short, watching the connection from basement to mid, 1 CT in mid looking across to the T side (lobby) and then 2 CTs on B, one holding main, one holding balcony. I made a little picture here as well:

ixfhAET.png

This way the guy at A short can always turn around and help out with defending A site but mid isn't looked down by a single CT either. Note that the two B players could be positioned in lots of different ways btw, not necessarily exactly like that. With this setup the actual mid player could give info to his A short player if everything is clear at mid and then that player can rotate from A short down to basement (covered by the proper mid player) to push and get info and the mid guy can still help out at A etc. That was my plan for the CT setup.

If I made mid easy to hold with one CT, a 2-1-2 static setup would be optimal and I feel that's too simple. That's something to test out during playtesting I guess. Does that make sense?

2.) Splitting off main and balcony later: I absolutely get where you're coming from again with the idea but there's two issues that I see with it: the first one is something you can't really see well in the overview images but there's a big height difference here. The balcony is 128+ units higher than main, so I would have to either make a ramp (but there's no space there to reach into main from the east side) or a ladder (there's already a ladder at balcony in the B bombsite right next to it so I also want to avoid that). And the second reason is that while it's true that a molly into balcony will stop any T players dead in their tracks for the duration of the flames, I like exactly that! Again, like balcony on Mirage. If it doesn't work because the CTs anticipated your play, you either wait and communicate that to your other players at main or you push through. I like that that's pretty tactical. And if you pull back, the map punishes you, again just like palace on Mirage. If I link everything up at that one point (main), then it becomes less tactical in my eyes.

Also, if everything was linked at main, it would make a CT push into main with flashes/smokes extremely strong as any CTs holding main would block off the entire B bombsite from any attacks by just sitting in one single spot where everything is routed through for the Ts. That's currently not possible because of the depth of the paths towards B from the T side.

What I will definitely do, however, is avoid having hallways that look like long empty path - maybe that's a big issue here visually. I can make rooms and lots of visual detail that you just can't access to make it look less boring and hallway-like on that route to balcony. Same goes for CT to A!

 

I hope I don't come across as overly defensive because I didn't agree with either of your two issues to the point where I made a change in the layout so far. Please do continue to make your point(s) @Roald and others! And if I'm wrong with any of my justifications in this post, let me know!

Edited by NihiL

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Its a good thing u thought about this and support your own ideas. And yea u should playtest it to see if it works like u want it to work and how players experience it. From this moment it will be adjusting and testing untill it works for you and csgo players in general

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2 hours ago, NihiL said:

Okay, the very first version of the graybox is now playable on the Steam workshop.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=775263894

Please give it a try and let me know what you think, what you'd like to see changed and so on.

HYxLSX7.jpg

yoGy5Y4.jpg

At this point we really need cover! It's too wide, open and bland. Also I feel like the entrance to basement from mid is way too wide, for a cheeky second path into mid. I feel the same for the entrance to basement from A main. Also I think it has too much verticality. I would either split the ramps into two horizontally, to achieve the same verticality as you have now, or you just lower the verticality. All these ideas are under the assumption, that basement is supposed to feel like Overpass's connector area. Instead you could also just leave everything as is (except for the width of basement's exit to mid, which definitely has to be tightened up), and make it a supply ramp as the one on Nuke.

Cheers!

Edited by Freaky_Banana

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Hey, sorry again for the late reply to your points, I was hoping to collect a bit more feedback from multiple people now that the playable graybox version is out there, but since there doesn't seem to be any more coming in...

Yeah, cover is the next step for the layout. More brushwork and preliminary detail (just not the purely visual stuff yet I guess).

I can fine tune the width of the basement to mid 'tunnel', although I would probably wait for playtesting feedback before I do that. I like space so unless it is indeed necessary to tighten that gap to improve gameplay, I would leave it as is. Easy to change either way.

About the verticality: right now it's deep enough so that we get 128 units of vertical space in the basement. That's my minimum for a proper floor with good movement, so I don't really want to reduce that (it would make players unable to jump then) but I wouldn't mind splitting the ramps up. In the final map, these will be stairs btw. Not sure what you mean with "make it a supply ramp as the one on Nuke" exactly? That's just a wide ramp?

Thanks for the input. There's still some angles in there that I don't think are very good. I will be taking screenshots of these for myself and then fix them. Also I want to make a separate test room or hall for visual stuff. Figure out a good style, custom textures and models included, that I can use as a baseline for the space agency architecture. I already have a bunch of reference photos for that. I will share the results as soon as they're done.

Does it seem like this forum is more dead than it used to be a year ago? Is that just me, is it the non-CSGO map contest or the dwindling playerbase?

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Idk I am kinda new to the community, but this is what it is in most topics. 

I suggest to just have a playtest already and see how that goes.

You could also go for TopHattWaffel's 5 vs 5 playtest and test some basic stuff like cover spots, angles, timings, balance and etc (or ask friends?). This means u should work some more on ur map and get all basics right. 

Afther that update your map, maybe get feedback here on screenshots and etc and then ask for a playtest on mapcore. 

Edited by Roald

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Hey NihiL! I have a few things to say about the map.

One, it seems k me to be quite small. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and when details are added it can change how big the map appears, but it does feel a little cramped in places like B site.

Two, a reason you may not have much feedback could be due to a lack of cover. It's hard to get a feel for a map that hasn't got cover, as you can only really theorise how the map will play, which changes wildly depending on where the cover is placed. My advice would be to update it to add cover and submit it for playtesting with TopHattWaffle, Reddit, and here,  Mapcore. That way we can get a feel for how the map plays and we can leave better feedback.

It looks good though, keep it up :D

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I certainly won't tell you what kind of map to make or anything like that, but I want to let you know that TopHattWaffle and I are also building a map with a missile silo in it.

 Here is a Wip shot of the silo.

Removed screenshot, PM'd OP

Edited by maxgiddens

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Nah I didn't mention the name or anything, and it's not currently available anywhere. It seems like he's going in a pretty different direction anyway. Don't worry though I'll pimp plenty when we're ready to release. :P

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22 hours ago, Evert said:

Are u pimping your map in another map thread?

I think maxgiddens is just letting NiHil know that their map is already detailed and is using the same theme.

If NiHil wants to make a unique map he could still give a new swirl to his theme and make his own unique one. But that's ofcourse up to NiHil.

Edited by JSadones

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It truly wasn't my intention to show off. I simply wanted to let NiHil know in a friendly, non competitive way that we are fairly far along with a map that has a stylistic similarity. I hadn't even considered sending a PM. I thought that a screenshot was the clearest way to communicate how committed we are to the theme at this point. At worst this would be a crappy advert because as I said, I haven't mentioned the title, and there is no place that the map can be found to download. This wasn't a promotion. I would have opened my own thread if it were, and it's silly to accuse me of being obtuse for giving a direct answer to a question.

I'm sorry if I caused an issue. I was honestly just trying to be nice, and avoid any conflict down the road. I'd hate to be in a situation like pharaoh and thrill.

Edited by maxgiddens

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No harm done everybody. I wasn't on here for a bit so I only just now saw this. I'm sure there are a number of maps with circular bomb sites like that, I mean, even HL1 had a similar rocket silo. I'm still busy preparing the map for playtesting btw!

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