Graves

[RD]

In every american movie the american graves are portrayed as grand monuments filled with heroes. These pictures opened my beautiful eyes and made me realise the russians have heroes too, much more then any other people which has fought wars.

And Daano, these are wargraves. Im sure when u die fighting against the mocro Jihadists in Holland, u would like ur depressing torn down grave to be visited by the grandchildren u werent able to make and have them take home ominous pictures to show their friends and say: Hey, this is the rubble of my grandfathers grave, i added extra filters over it to make it more forsaken, out of respect for his sacrifice to my freedom.

But me, and probably the rest of the free world, would like my grave to be a grand monument of courage visited by millions of pilgrims in joy.

[DaanO]

Yep just ridicule my point, you're doing a great job. Either you just do not understand what i'm saying or you're not willing to try.

[RD]

Why should these russian warmonuments be humble?

[Steppenwolf]

Just to make it clear if someone thinks so: there are no photoshop filters over the pics. They are like they came from the camera.

On the pics are graves from soviet soldiers (im not sure why their graves are here because Altenburg was captured by american troops), jews who lived in Altenburg and maybe were murdered (dont know their exact history), soviet prisoners who worked in the weaponsfactory and died there (we had a factory that produced munition for the 8,8cm Flak) and the last two pics are german soldiergraves from the first world war.

[DaanO]

Why should these russian warmonuments be humble?

In didn't say those should be, i said the photos should. The fact that Steppenwolf saw these graves as an opportunity to get pretty photos (he succeeded well) is what i mean. I think good photos should be more than just a pretty picture, they should tell a story, be, well, interesting. I don't consider dying for your country to be something glorious, never. Photos should tell that.

Steppenwolf: I know, shots are well taken and all

[RD]

Why should these russian warmonuments be humble?

In didn't say those should be, i said the photos should. The fact that Steppenwolf saw these graves as an opportunity to get pretty photos (he succeeded well) is what i mean. I think good photos should be more than just a pretty picture, they should tell a story, be, well, interesting. I don't consider dying for your country to be something glorious, never. Photos should tell that.

Steppenwolf: I know, shots are well taken and all

Well it should tell a story but not your story. Like he said there are no filters on it so it just shows a story u disagree with. The beauty of these pictures is they have confronted ur purile eyes with the shocking reality that there is in fact great glory in dying for ur country. If u disagree with this, remember he wasnt photographing u

[kleinluka]

Why does DaanO always tell us how to shoot our pictures how they should tell us stories only books could tell us but THEN never posts any of his own?

Tisk. tisk.

[DaanO]

Cause i'm still working on my website, and when it's ready i'm gonna post 50 photos of my own you can comment as much as you want. I am doing a lot of photography. All i do is try to help to make better photos, cause obviously nobody here needs any help to take prettier photos.

Besides that, rd, it is obviously bullshit (sorry to say) that any picture you take without a filter tells the story of a place just right. The selection of an image you make (basically that's what photography is) can change a great deal. You can make happy and glorious photos and sad or even angry photos of the same place. This selecting of images tells the story. And it might be partially my story, but i think that in general graveyards have nothing glorious or happy about them. The bright colors in the photos do. I mean, do you really think dying or death can ever be something glorious? Cause i don't.

Again, these are not bad photos. It's just that they don't do the place any justice and that is my point. Steppenwolf took some pretty pictures but i think that if you're making a portrait of a graveyard, it should be all happy. If you see it as an opportunity to make pretty pictures that have nothing about them, that's almost disrespectful to me. The pictures just lack some character, some depth. They lack stories that can be told with photography. Seriously, if you don't think photos can tell stories you shouldn't even be taking them. Making pretty pictures is not that hard, making good photos is.

Also, i don't think you need to be really good at something to be good at commenting on the same thing. Not many film critics are actually directors, not many art critics are actually painters. It's just kinda lame to ignore a comment because someone didn't post something of his own.

[Jezpuh]

Oh god, Steppen. That is pure awesome. I love it

[Skjalg]

For Konge Og Fedreland!

If my country went to war with the filthy swedes (or some other weird country for a good reason), I'd die for my country!

It's the most honorable thing for a true warrior to die on the battlefield!

... And it really is a glorious thing!

The thing is, some people doesnt really think that all graveyards should look like Duskwood in World of Warcraft (the spooky place, with skeletons and ghosts), some people actually think that they should honor their beloved ones with the most glorious and nicest gravestone on earth, because the most glorious and nicest person on the earth deserves it!

RD's point still stands, just because the picture doesnt tell a story you dont like, doesnt mean it still doesnt tell a good and true one!

[RD]

These pictures tell a tale that is invisible to men who dont believe in glory and the fatherland, but to others is bright as the stars in a far away land liberated by fallen comrades

[DaanO]

Oh yes, i just don't see the obvious thing you're talking about and therefor i should just shut my mouth. I think this is what the arts vs. entertainment discussion is all about. I think there's quite some talent in mapcore, but more people should quit being just entertainers and start being artists. I know (duh) that graves can have something pretty and clear about them, but these pictures show only one side, which makes they lack depth, which makes them less interesting. If only they showed a bit of the other side of the story i would say awesome pictures in every way. But that's not the case.

Besides that, the people that think dying for your country is glorious should try living for their country. Might just be more useful and rewarding. Death is never glorious and those that disagree are just very naive.

[RD]

Dont take 'dying for their country' too literal. With country, were not talking about a piece of land, but ofcourse all the ppl in it as well, ur family and friends, its culture and all the animals too. Living for ur country is impossible when the nazis are castrating and exterminating ur race. Death on the front is a glorious and romantic experience if the alternative is auswitz, which we would be living in now if these graves hadnt existed.

I know the silly things they teach in artschool about other ppl being inferior ('just entertainers'), but i am glad that there are ppl who know that art is bullshit that even 3 month old babies can make, and that these ppl just make awesome maps that dont need to be hung in museums. Videogames arent created by smiting paint on a board by chance, but pure skill and talent.

And just to get back on topic, yes the pictures could have been more dramatic and tell a bigger and different story, but there is glory in dying for ur country, and these pictures show it

[kleinluka]

I think DaanO is a bit too serious about these photos. As Steppenwolf said, he didnt take the pictures to create masterpieces of art. He made them to take beautiful pictures.

What is even the point of this discussion "YOU ARE ALL DOING IT WRONG" blah blah.....meh

[DaanO]

That is just so naive and laughable i'm not even going to discuss about that. Art is real. I don't think entertainers are inferior to artists but i am sure there's a huge difference between the two. If you really think art is just some paint splattered on canvas, and that 3 year olds can do that, wow. I can only applaud for the stupidity.

Besides that, i'd rather survive Auschwitz than die at the front.

Klein: It's not so much about these pictures, but more about the next pictures he might take. I see some great potential in these photos and i'm trying to encourage him to do something with it. I'd rather have art than entertainment because i think art can be entertaining as well. It's just so much more fulfilling than "just" entertainment. But that's just my opinion, which can be safely ignored.