ar_grotto [CS:GO WIP]

[Guest]

Hey guys, I've posted this map before in the WIP thread but I'm nearing completion so I figured I'd make a thread so you guys can help me polish the map up a bit. This is a semi-symmetrical arms race map for CS:GO. My goals for this map are pretty simple. I want this to be a map where you can hop in and just frag and have fun. I want the map to flow well and I players to be able to navigate through the level fluidly. I also wanted to challenge myself to make the map visually appealing and interesting.

 I started this map back in the spring and have worked on it on and off for around 400 hours. This is my second hammer map, so I've been mapping pretty slow and I've been learning a ton along the way. The one before this was just a small 1v1 map to learn the basics of the tool. I've learned alot about my personal workflow and how I would like to approach things differently in the future and also about more technical things like visleaves and general optimization. This was a very disorganized but very educational project and I think whatever I do next with this tool will be much cleaner and won't take nearly as long. So now, the most important thing is to finish what I started so I can move on to other ideas. 

 

These screens are pretty old but the visuals of these areas haven't changed drastically. I'll be uploading more once I make more visual changes. Alot of the work recently has been things like optimization/reworking brushwork and other rooms etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I realize it's kind of silly to post a thread about my map without a playable bsp but I will get up one up very soon. I'm about 50 mb above the file limit allowed on steam workshop so I've got some trimming to do. I'm new to "packing" my level's content so I've probably got alot to learn about that stuff too. I think having a thread will help me stay motivated to finish this.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by nikkoship

[will2k]

Nice work so far.

Couple of quick notes:

- screenshot 3: the concrete texture in the lower level could use a bit of aligning as it looks a bit random and unrealistic. The seams, vertical and horizontal, are biased towards the left window. It would be better to shift the vertical seam either to the center between the 2 windows or completely the one edge of the brush where it's not visible at all. The horizontal seam could be lowered to the bottom edge of the windows to create continuity and visual coherence. It will look tidier and people with OCD won't be pissed off

- screenshot 4: the blue brick texture could use a bit of downscaling. If you are using the default 0.25 scale, I believe going down to 0.2 should be fine (or somewhere close if you wish to keep the brick edges of the texture aligned with the ceiling and floor planes)

- Custom content can be cut down as I see some props in the screenshots that could be easily replaced with almost similar stock props in CSGO. If the gameplay is good and fun, no one will notice the custom props

Keep up the good work

[blackdog]

I remember these screens. I like the geometry but I think you need to spend some time working on the lighting of the scene, especially in the central area the orange is too much and I think makes everything too gloomy/unpleasant. I'd throw in at least some white floodlights and use the color for more of an accent.

[Guest]

Nice work so far.

Couple of quick notes:

- screenshot 3: the concrete texture in the lower level could use a bit of aligning as it looks a bit random and unrealistic. The seams, vertical and horizontal, are biased towards the left window. It would be better to shift the vertical seam either to the center between the 2 windows or completely the one edge of the brush where it's not visible at all. The horizontal seam could be lowered to the bottom edge of the windows to create continuity and visual coherence. It will look tidier and people with OCD won't be pissed off

- screenshot 4: the blue brick texture could use a bit of downscaling. If you are using the default 0.25 scale, I believe going down to 0.2 should be fine (or somewhere close if you wish to keep the brick edges of the texture aligned with the ceiling and floor planes)

- Custom content can be cut down as I see some props in the screenshots that could be easily replaced with almost similar stock props in CSGO. If the gameplay is good and fun, no one will notice the custom props

Keep up the good work

Yeah, I went kind of crazy with custom props. I've gone through my map and replaced the custom barrels and other basic clutter with the stock models. I've left some of the more showcasey ones in for now (like the tank). I haven't done a compile, but I think this will cut down alot of the size just based on what VIDE told me. As far as texture alignment/scaling goes, that is something that I've spent alot of time with lately. Most of my textures were just left on default and unaligned, because it had been awhile since I built the original brushes. After watching many of topphatwaffle's vids and various other guides, I now realize how noobish alot of it looks and have been making sure to clean them up. I think most of the hr brick textures look better at .15, which I've scaled the red brick and the blue brick to. http://i.imgur.com/YxzSsqE.jpg

 

I know people hate editor screenshots but I thought I'd share these with anyone who's interested in the map. Currently I am working on making a bridge that connects the upper catwalks to each other.

http://imgur.com/tdO695v

I want to redo the railing as it was pretty noisy before. There is a shallow layer of water on the floor so that people can just jump down from the catwalk smoothly without taking fall damage (if they aim for the water).

I am working with foliage right under where the light comes in from the cave's ceiling, it looks a little funky in the editor. From lots of different screenshots of caves, foliage tends to grow in patches wherever the light comes in. Usually at the mouth or under an opening. Trying to work something like this into the map.

http://imgur.com/XFfweJs

The sniper hut area felt very cramped and claustrophobic. I think putting it on stilts helps open that area up as it lets people pass under it.

http://imgur.com/7E2sQt5 - Threw in some open containers. In general I think they're an improvement over the older ones and they give the map a new spawn point. They're not as long too, so they keep that space near the truck (middle area) less cramped.

As blackdog said, I do agree that the lighting is a little too warm. I'd like to experiment with some whiter lights like in de_castle's caverns. I also would like to rethink the "garage" lighting in the tank area. I was going for something more industrial and I liked cs_office's greenish lighting but it doesn't feel right. It's too green. I think I might go with something like this - http://i.imgur.com/nCXNg95.jpg. I think it looks a little softer, it could be brighter though.

 

I general, I think I'm overthinking the lighting colors. I'll probably cut it back to something a little more standard.

I've got some more work to do before I compile again, but I'll post more screens soon.

Edited November 25, 2015 by nikkoship

[blackdog]

Quite like this light test in the last shot.

The bridge is something that I was thinking about back when you shared the shots originally, so I think it will be an interesting addition. No idea about how it will play out though.

[Guest]

Okay, after a very lazy winter break I think it's time to step to it and finally finish this thing. I only put about 25 hours into the map over the break, so I've still got a ways to go. But I figured I'd update the thread since it has been a couple of months. 

 

 

Generally added further detail to "blue" areas of the map:

http://imgur.com/6joXnvE 

http://imgur.com/z5VUCfm

http://imgur.com/OQK8Fyb

http://imgur.com/HzzjDpd

The map is semi - symmetrical, but I think that copy pasting/flipping 180 is kind of a lazy way to make a map. So I want to make each side of the map feel a little bit different. Basically, I want to use different brick colors to help people know where they are on the map along with other visual indicators (because sometimes it's easy to get lost on a symmetrical map if everything looks the same). At this point, I've lit/textured and done a decent amount of detailing to the "blue" side of the map and now I'm starting on the other side. I want to use red brick on the main part of both buildings because I think having red/blue looks a little bit cheesy/too much like TF2? I guess what I'm going for is something more subtle.

So here's the other side of the map, using a similar structure to the blue areas. I've got green brick/plaster in there now and plan to use paint-swatches to ease the harsh transition. I've just started the basic texture/trimming passes on this side of the map today so it's very bare-bones but hopefully these screens help explain what I mean. Green's a little weird, but I'll have to wait and see how it looks with props/more detail before I ditch it.

http://imgur.com/oMTRVFz

http://imgur.com/QQ1Q8ct

http://imgur.com/p73ZVfY

I also ditched the "vent" connector seen in the first layout, felt a little bit out of place.

I've felt really focused working on it lately so hopefully there's alot more to come!

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by nikkoship

[Guest]

Some more update screens, finally every area has proper textures/props. Need to tweak lighting, sound, make a radar, and just generally polish things now.

In the distance you can see the bridge between the two buildings I mentioned in an earlier post. Other than this, the layout hasn't really changed. I've tried to tone down the orange a bit in the lighting as well.

 

The new sniper hut, elevated so that you can cross underneath it. Messing around with some ground clutter/ceiling stalactites to help the outside area feel more like a cave. Needs some more tweaking though.

 

"Green" area of the map. I've dimmed the lights in the interiors a bit to help it fit the theme/location a bit better.

 

 

File size is still huge, still have to cut down a bit before I can upload a bsp to the workshop.

Edited February 25, 2016 by nikkoship

[Guest]

Gah, I feel like I'll never finish this! I'm such a slow mapper, I started this map nearly a year ago now. I feel like I've learned so much though, the next project hopefully won't take nearly as long. Anyways, figured I'd post some of the areas that I've been working on.

Right now alot of the changes are mostly focused on improving the level of detail. I've just been taking screenshots of boring walls/dark corners and then going in the editor to try and shake things up a bit I guess. So most changes are quite underwhelming in the grand scheme of things.

 

This is the side opposite to the "blue" side. The map is symmetrical to an extent - same geometry, different visuals. As said before, copy pasting and flipping everything felt like a cheap way to make a map. I at least want things to look different on each side.

 

Some random background detail

I felt like the sniper huts were pretty boring so I've added some more detail to them. I think I will be adding lights on the exterior part of the huts as well.

 I've raised the brightness on the white floodlights, as suggested by Blackdog. Hopefully they help break up some of the orangeness going on.

I also sort of promised myself I would not add anymore brushes and instead would focus on polishing the details of the map. But being my indecisive self, I decided I liked the idea of old vent connector but I just executed it poorly. I don't think a huge straightaway vent corridor is a very interesting connector, so I'm working in a more spacious connector which will hopefully make for some more interesting gunfights.

These screens are pretty bare-bones but hopefully they show you what I'm going for.

 

 

 

Work continues, slowly but surely.

Edited March 4, 2016 by nikkoship

[baem123]

the shadows in the first screenshot are really cool

[Guest]

I don't have a ton to show off in terms of updates. I'm finishing up detailing the new connector, so very tedious stuff that isn't worth showing till it's closer to being finished. However, I did find an old dropbox folder with the old versions of my map starting from the very first one.

I think progress screenshots are pretty cool, and I got such a nostalgia high walking through the old versions of the map. I thought I might as well post some progress screens for anyone who is interested.

 

 This was the first real version of the map, compiled Feb. of 2015. It's hard to believe it's been over a year. This was my second map in hammer so I was learning new things and incorporating them in along the way. 

First bit of feedback that I got was that it was too small and there was not enough cover. I started taking the map seriously at this point and wanted to make something that looked good to me. I resized the map for arms race, and figured I might try to get the map into a contest. I used ar_shoots as a guideline for the layout/scale.

Map was way too open so I decided to create an interior part of the map.

Clearly still struggling with the visuals of the map.

I think I was playing Skyrim, and I loved how the caves looked so I switched the theme up to be an old soviet base built inside the chamber of a cave instead of a flooded...crateyard? The displacements are .... questionable.

It's... kinda is starting to look like a cave?

I tried the finish the map for a contest over spring break and pretty much sat in a dark room for a week trying to get it ready... but I was too inexperienced with the editor to get it out in time. Most of the interiors were still in dev textures.

And here's last week's compile. I'm focusing on the interiors right now but I've got some things I'd like to do to the main chamber once I'm through. I think I'd like to redo the ceiling displacement all together to help fit the stalactites in a bit better. I'm also still playing around with lighting a bit. Right now it's at something a bit more neutral (?) instead of being so orange. Still kinda feels a bit dull though, so the lighting in the main chamber is definitely next on my list.

At the end of the day, even if the map does get buried on the workshop - I've learned a ton about mapping in the process. The next project should take way less time and hopefully will be of much higher quality.

More to come later in the week. Hopefully tweaked lighting in the main chamber and detailed connectors.

Edited March 9, 2016 by nikkoship

[Guest]

Okay, I think I hit some burnout with the map but I'm back at it after taking a small break.

I've detailed the two new areas that were mentioned in a post above. They could use some more polish, but I think they're generally starting to look okay in-game.

Here are some screens:

 

 

^^ Need some info_lighting now that I look at this one! 

 

These areas replace the old straightaway vent connector that you can see in the first layout screenshot here: imgur.com/DSHsibH.jpg

Lot's of work to do in terms of optimization and polishing.

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by nikkoship

[AxeliNo]

This looks beautiful! Well done!

[Guest]

Well it's been quite a while since I've updated this thread, but I have actually been working pretty hard on the map lately! I think I'm finally ready to share with you all some of the plans I have for this map. It's a pretty big update and I'd like to keep this as log of the development just for future use, so I apologize for the wall of text/screenshots. 

I really love deathmatchy arena shooters, I could probably play Quake/UT for as long as I live. But, trying to translate that love for arena fps map design to CSGO is really difficult. CSGO is quite a slow game, and features no pickups in the base game which is a huge reason why arena shooters are so enjoyable to me. Making a map for arms race wasn't really scratching that itch for me, it just felt really dull to play on. It felt like more of an art project than an actual level. I wasn't proud of the gameplay at all.

As I've said before, this map was my second map in hammer and was mainly a platform for me to learn most of the features of the editor and the engine. I just want to make a space that I feel proud of in both a gameplay sense and a visual sense. 

In June I started working on implementing some new game modes into the map, and I completely ditched the arms race game mode along with the "russian" theme as it felt very restrictive when it came to which types of props/decals I could place in the level (everything had to be written in russian). I moved over to a vaguely modern, derelict underground Black Mesa facility. The Black Mesa theme helps justify some of the more goofy stuff going on in the map now. (sort of inspired by Will2k's de_forlon as well, as I love the look of that map.)

I've used some existing mods as a base to work off of and got some more pickups working (credit to Zool Smith and Spherix for their original instances/prefabs). I've changed how the pickups work a little bit (mostly the health and armor pickups), so I'll explain them as I go. I'll also explain the game modes a little bit more further on but here's some screenshots of how the map looks now:

 

Previously, I decided to try and be more subtle with color coding areas. But since CTF is one of the main game modes, I felt as though I should clearly define the map's areas in a TF2 style. Hopefully it doesn't feel too cheesy, and I think it helps the map play much better.

This armor is actually red, I just forgot to remove an orange light in the instance it belongs to. Red armor = kevlar + helmet. Yellow armor = normal kevlar. The orange lighting in all the instances will mostly likely be lowered or completed removed. So ignore any abnormal brightness on the pickups =p.

I don't have a screenshot of the yellow armor but generally they are easier to obtain than the red armor, and the red has a higher spawn time.

 (below) Here you can see a weapon pickup and health vials. Health vials heal 5 health and overheal you to a max of 150. The blue orb you see in the background is a teleporter.

The symmetrical sister of the above (blue) room, the red orb is a teleporter.

Below, you've got a +50 health pickup. Although these don't overheal, the will only heal your character to 100 health.

 

 

In this shot (below) you can see the megahealth pickup (blue strength icon). This will add +100 health to whatever health you currently have and does overheal.

So, for example if you grab the mega when you've maxed out the stacks on the health vials you will able to have 250 health.

Sand has also been changed from black to normal to help with visibility.

Below you can see a jump pad which lets you "skip" to get up to the catwalk, or you can also use it to grab the mega.

 

Okay so that's what the map looks like. The pickups are a bit of a hackjob right now but I'm working on some more polished looking ones.

I've got the player speed increased in all the game modes, a bit slower than the "F4ST" mod by Zool Smith (1.5x the normal speed). Bunny hopping is also easier etc. (just like F4ST) 

As far as game modes go, right now I'm focusing on FFA/CTF (ffa and duel are sorta the same thing). I'm experimenting with a round based team elimination game mode (clan arena) where you start with yellow armor, a zeus and a pistol. I want you to be able to choose what pistol you start with but I'm struggling to find ways to limit the buy menu without server plugins (I'm a noob with scripting etc., just starting to learn)

FFA is self explanatory, and so is duel (1v1). CTF is as well, but there are certain things that I'm struggling with. I wanted to have a halftime after reaching a certain amount of flag caps and then have the team switch sides as there is a bit of asymmetry that could create a sorta interesting dynamic. But it doesn't seem to work properly. So, as it stands right now, two teams duke it out for 15 minutes (Best of 30 flag caps) and there is no halftime or switching sides. It plays fine, but I really would like to get halftime working.

Anyways, I was struggling with motivation due to the gameplay being completely dull in the old version but I think I found something that I personally really enjoy even just with bots. I think I'm more motivated than ever to finish the map now! So much so that I'll probably be making more maps for this gametype in the future.

Also, I'll be testing CTF/FFA with friends maybe tomorrow afternoon/night (depends on everyone's schedule) so if you would like to be a part of that playtest or any others please join this group! (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/neekoplaytest) We'll probably play the map on weekends mostly.

So I just don't know what I'll call the game type... F4STCTF? Arena strike? Also the map name will probably need to change too.

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by nikkoship

[Guest]

So the map is more or less complete!

I got soundscapes up and running and a decent amount of variation in the audio in each area. I'm going to try and polish some little details over the next day or two, but in general it's all finished. I'd also like to record some sort of little "trailer" for the map to show some of the gameplay.

I'm also a bit hesitant to release it with all the botting going on in the workshop atm.

I'll probably just keep ctf as the main game mode, and it's been switched from 5v5 to 3v3 as I feel like it was really chaotic with 10 players. 3v3 feels much better imo.

Here's the radar, that I finally got around to doing. Will probably fine tune it but this is where it's at right now.

 

 

New look to the weapon pickups:

 

And some misc. scenes I worked on that I don't think I've shown yet:

Red teleporter room (looks really bright on my new monitor settings, so I'll probably tone it down a bit.):

Blue teleporter entrance (below)

 

(below) And the other side of the same teleporter, with the yellow armor pickup room:

 

So I think I'm gonna name the game mode Arena CTF. If I include more than just CTF (possibly control point/round based elimination game modes), I might call it something more broad like "Arena Strike". Are those dumb names? I'd like to pick something easy to remember as I plan on making more maps for this game mode in the future.

Edited July 25, 2016 by nikkoship