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Complex

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Complex

Complex is a defusal map based on the Temple of Philae, an Egyptian temple complex located on an island in the Nile.

20190530111605_1.jpg.127e776f85d4902464e5fe7a1079a4a5.jpg

Links

Complex Alpha Workshop

Earlier versions

Spoiler

Theme
Complex is a level set in a construction site. The theme isn't fully developed yet, but there will hopefully be more to it than that.

Layout
The left side of the map is quite simplistic and the right side is more complex, with multiple floors to fight over. 

Terrorists has an advantage when it comes to taking control of middle.

Alpha 18

Spoiler

Overview
a18_zones.thumb.png.024e9805ec86a51bf723

A-site
A.thumb.jpg.d1deecc5063a7436455c5d418d6e

B-site
B.thumb.jpg.4e5a2017e5ebe228496d549dd9d7

Middle
mid2.thumb.jpg.fb1b471800c360e95ba7af17f

Alpha 12

Spoiler

Overview
dwadawdwa.thumb.png.23106452e2ae6bf8361f305f8c525e50.png

A-site
2015-09-28_00021.thumb.jpg.a4126bf1a911e699f8cd1a290be53bff.jpg

B-site
2015-09-28_00011.thumb.jpg.0219099a91587d550ad8268bc2805ab0.jpg

Middle
mid1.thumb.jpg.6e27c912dcb98f02b4b81fe3fec8d31b.jpg

Status

The map is in greybox alpha. Will go into detailed beta soon(TM).

Edited by Logic

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Ok so had a game against bots on this and then had a run around and I do like it overall. I feel that this will be interesting to see in playtest, it seems that the map has got some very interesting encounter spots. My only real gripe is with it is the passages around A being a little over complex pun not intended and maybe a few too may places to hide for an after plant scenario. Example being able to boost on top of the crane base. I felt that if you were playing a team that knew what they were doing it would be too hard to retake the site. I may be wrong and would like to see it in action.

I feel that mid is a little T sided as if the ct pushes the overpass section to look at the t spawn entrance he is very easily flanked. however I feel if you were playing this map you would hold a little further back and let them push rather than pushing mid. 

I really liked the B set up <3  

I think this map has a lot of potential and am excited to see it progress. glhf :D 

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So I myself also had a run around the map with bots. Some of the impressions I collected:

First of all the map looks good (I especially love the container homes and the stones in mid. I have to state though, that I felt like the props were not corresponding to a main theme.  

Second the gameplay:

The navmesh on CT side seems really mucked up ^^. CTs keep getting stuck on the door at B and just rush mid most of the times, where they wait, until the bomb is planted(otherwise they like B for a roundstart). Ts seem to plant on A usually, and I have to say, that A is hard to defend, since there are many angles the Ts could come from (given they have taken mid, which happens often because it favors Ts thanks to being able to just smoke out the one single CT entrance to it from their spawn). I don't know if I just took the wrong approach here, by defending from down back at the foot of the crane, But I also had problems retaking A (especially since the CT bots were all stuck on that door xD). There were just too many Ts in the site already (btw the readability is bad with the box in the corner of the site closest to CT Spawn, Ts have almost the same colour :D ). I would suggest removing the back of the road like thing in the back of A towards CT side. It's tough to check without running out in the open, turning your back on the actual site. B looks cool, although I imagine it being a tough charge for the Ts to get into the site. Once they have it its great though :D . Rotations are easy to hold down for the Ts, by controlling the hall infront of mid (on CT side) and the underpass to A. No one wants to run around through T Spawn, when the bombs ticking. That'd be it for now, if I remember anything else later, I will comment again :) . Until then keep up the good work!

Cheers! 

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Ok so had a game against bots on this and then had a run around and I do like it overall. I feel that this will be interesting to see in playtest, it seems that the map has got some very interesting encounter spots. My only real gripe is with it is the passages around A being a little over complex pun not intended and maybe a few too may places to hide for an after plant scenario. Example being able to boost on top of the crane base. I felt that if you were playing a team that knew what they were doing it would be too hard to retake the site. I may be wrong and would like to see it in action.

I feel that mid is a little T sided as if the ct pushes the overpass section to look at the t spawn entrance he is very easily flanked. however I feel if you were playing this map you would hold a little further back and let them push rather than pushing mid. 

I really liked the B set up <3  

I think this map has a lot of potential and am excited to see it progress. glhf :D 

I also worry that A-site is far too complex and too hard to retake in a competitive 5v5 game. I simply put all of the routes in too see which routes the terrorists prefers. I will adjust the routes based on gameplay feedback.

Middle is by design easier for the Terrorists to take at the start of every round. Peeking as a CT is risky but may be a risk worth taking if you can catch the T's off guard and you can do some cool smokes to smoke off the catwalk :cool: This is my thoughts on it anyway, we'll see how it all plays out tonight :)

I'm not sure where the easy flank you were talking about is. Maybe you could show me your thoughts on a picture or something?

Anyways, thank you for the feedback Cruckz! I'm happy you liked B-site! :D

why is there a black cock on a generator?

It is there because I was bored and put some random overlays to spice things up.

So I myself also had a run around the map with bots. Some of the impressions I collected:

First of all the map looks good (I especially love the container homes and the stones in mid. I have to state though, that I felt like the props were not corresponding to a main theme.  

Second the gameplay:

The navmesh on CT side seems really mucked up ^^. CTs keep getting stuck on the door at B and just rush mid most of the times, where they wait, until the bomb is planted(otherwise they like B for a roundstart). Ts seem to plant on A usually, and I have to say, that A is hard to defend, since there are many angles the Ts could come from (given they have taken mid, which happens often because it favors Ts thanks to being able to just smoke out the one single CT entrance to it from their spawn). I don't know if I just took the wrong approach here, by defending from down back at the foot of the crane, But I also had problems retaking A (especially since the CT bots were all stuck on that door xD). There were just too many Ts in the site already (btw the readability is bad with the box in the corner of the site closest to CT Spawn, Ts have almost the same colour :D ). I would suggest removing the back of the road like thing in the back of A towards CT side. It's tough to check without running out in the open, turning your back on the actual site. B looks cool, although I imagine it being a tough charge for the Ts to get into the site. Once they have it its great though :D . Rotations are easy to hold down for the Ts, by controlling the hall infront of mid (on CT side) and the underpass to A. No one wants to run around through T Spawn, when the bombs ticking. That'd be it for now, if I remember anything else later, I will comment again :) . Until then keep up the good work!

Cheers! 

I'm happy you liked the visuals in some areas. The map isn't detailed yet and props have been randomly placed to make areas feel less empty. I will certainly fix this once the map goes into the detailing phase!

What can I say about the bots, they are all idiots and the nav-mesh isn't really a priority at this point :v

I understand that A-site is currently a bit tricky to defend. I though that CT's would push up and defend the tunnel as a start though, giving them some space to fall back on if T's were to push their position. Still, it's not perfect and I'll give the whole area an overhaul once I get some more feedback :) The wasted space that leads up to the truck will most likely be removed as well.

I can't tell which box you meant though, maybe you can show me with a picture? :???:

I'm still trying to make T-spawn relevant, but it's a though task since timings still need to match up with the current timings. I'll look into redesigning T-spawn from scratch some day!

Thank you for the feedback! It's great to hear these things from other people as well :) 

Edited by Logic

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I also worry that A-site is far too complex and too hard to retake in a competitive 5v5 game. I simply put all of the routes in too see which routes the terrorists prefers. I will adjust the routes based on gameplay feedback.

I would suggest doing the exact opposite. Start with a really simple design and incrementally add routes as required. If you try to skip to (or past in your case..) the end layout you'll have tons of issues fixing sightlines/timings etc for a route that may well end up being ripped out- I've been there, done that. Playtesters may end up overwhelmed with options too and you'll end up in a 'wood and the trees' kind of situation in regards to feedback. That's if they get as far as playing the map, People are often put off by a complex overview...

Edited by Vaya

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I would suggest doing the exact opposite. Start with a really simple design and incrementally add routes as required. If you try to skip to (or past in your case..) the end layout you'll have tons of issues fixing sightlines/timings etc for a route that may well end up being ripped out- I've been there, done that. Playtesters may end up overwhelmed with options too and you'll end up in a 'wood and the trees' kind of situation in regards to feedback. That's if they get as far as playing the map, People are often put off by a complex overview...

That's good advice. Thanks Vaya!

I'm just not really sure how to fix the layout as it is, but I'll definitely try to simplify the layout after tonight's playtesting session :)

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Just some rough feedback throwing in the pool.

I would suggest closing a few connectors between areas

Creating a long and short split at underpass connector to A?

Simplify the path from spawn to A in front of site above underpass connector?

Complex1.thumb.jpg.1f5b74208d0a75606cba9

Reducing the amount of vertical angles seen from each entrance into site by raising the ground and reducing the extra areas players must check before arriving at A site also seemed like unused space.

Complex2.thumb.jpg.fa50fc0eca4bdac6bb5ad

The area between the red crate and A bomb site is neat

Complex3.thumb.jpg.92fdd9f61b3f1b99fdd52

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I would suggest closing a few connectors between areas

Creating a long and short split at underpass connector to A?

Simplify the path from spawn to A in front of site above underpass connector?

Reducing the amount of vertical angles seen from each entrance into site by raising the ground and reducing the extra areas players must check before arriving at A site also seemed like unused space.

Thanks for the feedback Andre!

I'm already in the process of redesigning A-site and have removed the connectors/dead space you mentioned. I'm not sure how to raise the ground level without having really low ceiling in the underpass, so I might try to keep it for now. I'm planning on making the crane the new A-site target so I might move the site all together.

This is still early, but I'll include some images in the spoiler below:

Overview:
new.thumb.jpg.a1735a24258af351aaa24cbc6d

A-site:
A.thumb.jpg.46bd815ee4d28aa36fb8b063a51a

I'll try to keep the Area between A and the red crate intact while simplifying the route from CT-spawn to A. I will also try to speed up rotation times in general.

I recorded the entire gameplay session with TS audio. It helped a lot since there was very few actual comments (!fb, !feedback and !gf) on the map, I recommend others to do the same! :) 

Edited by Logic

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hey there ;)

Reaaly  like the map from the screenshots, would be nice if you could upload it to the workshop for people to more easily access it 

 

I will say more when it is there, I am just too lazy to put the file in my csgo folder now xD

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I'm not sure how to raise the ground level without having really low ceiling in the underpass, so I might try to keep it for now.

How apart a ramped entry like Mirage A slope? Or the underpass leads up to a mid point between the main A floor and the underpass level with more stairs leading up, 2 sets of smaller steps rather than one set of longer steps.

Edited by jackophant

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hey there ;)

Reaaly  like the map from the screenshots, would be nice if you could upload it to the workshop for people to more easily access it 

I will say more when it is there, I am just too lazy to put the file in my csgo folder now xD

Glad you like the look of the map, even though it's not that spectacular to look at :P

Unfortunately I won't put this on the workshop until it reaches a level of detail that I'm happy with, and that might take months, or even years. I'd like you to reconsider installing the map manually though :v

How apart a ramped entry like Mirage A slope? Or the underpass leads up to a mid point between the main A floor and the underpass level with more stairs leading up, 2 sets of smaller steps rather than one set of longer steps.

The A-site has changed quite a lot since the playtest, but the high height difference is still there. I'll try to tone it down a bit using the methods you proposed. Thanks Jackophant!

Guess I'll update my own thread with a picture of A-site while I'm in the middle of things. The ladder is fully functional if anyone's wondering.

2015-10-06_00001.thumb.jpg.4d8e94c3ce84a2015-10-06_00002.thumb.jpg.3600fd337d5f0

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