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grapen

[CS:GO] de_scepter (WIP)

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Just to add a bit to the mid theory crafting: my guess is that should balcony pushes become popular with CT's, the T meta would adapt by either pre-aiming the window opposite of balcony from the safety of mid, or pre-emptively mollying the balcony before stepping out into mid. If the molly hits balcony as the CT is jumping up on the boxes and portruding brick, he would take a lot of damage. An alternate way of handling it could be to make the balcony require a two man boost, meaning some early control of chapel will be turned over to the T's. The best possible spawn CT will get about 1 second head start on the aim duel down the chapel corridor, which is not always something you want to give up. Time will tell!

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Version 0.6 is coming along nicely with new models and textures, as well as some minor gameplay improvements. Unfortunately I won't be able to push this to the workshop in time for the playtest tonight.

Changes to windows:

The textures for these new models are not finished as I intend for them to be more ornate. The meshes are very low poly, though this might be reviewed post release depending on the frame budget at that point in time. Speaking of which, in the current build my FPS is running comfortably at 400, peaking at 500 in certain indoor areas. I'm running CS:GO @ 1080p with high settings on an i7 3770K with GTX 680 and 16 DDR3. This is before HINT brushes so things are looking fine.

de_scepter-alpha06-01.thumb.jpg.11587018

Non 45 or 90 degree geometry:

A few changes being made to brushes in certain places to make the architecture seem more realistic (see reference below) and natural. This is the alley outside of the chapel, which is all 90 degrees in v0.5. An arch and door (only ornamental, no change in gameplay) is going to be added to the right wall to make the trip down there seem realistic.

de_scepter-alpha06-02.thumb.jpg.790f55db

Floor plan for chateau de blois:

tumblr_m3g30bFDjU1qgpvyjo1_1280.thumb.jp

Next up is working on arches and door openings, as well as giving T spawn a lift. 

Edited by grapen

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I think that you should stick to references from only one reduced region, and one short period of time, otherwise it won't be recognizable and make a weird mix

Popular architectoral design was never bound to one nation. Work from successful architects would often be comissioned by royalty from all over Europe, many buildings in Stockholm were for instance designed by french architects in mixed styles. Neuschwanstein (Romanesque Revival) was started in 1869, but is today not finished. Palaces would sometimes take ages to construct and lead architect would change. Hampton Court Palace in England is another good example, where construction begun in 1515 and ended in 1694, which resulted in two different architectoral styles: Tudor and Baroque. My many references from France and Germany could be from either country, the average person can't tell. :)

As a side note, would anyone guess that de_cbble is set in France? ;)

Edited by grapen

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Popular architectoral design was never bound to one nation. Work from successful architects would often be comissioned by royalty from all over Europe, many buildings in Stockholm were for instance designed by french architects in mixed styles. Neuschwanstein (Romanesque Revival) was started in 1869, but is today not finished. Palaces would sometimes take ages to construct and lead architect would change. Hampton Court Palace in England is another good example, where construction begun in 1515 and ended in 1694, which resulted in two different architectoral styles: Tudor and Baroque. My many references from France and Germany could be from either country, the average person can't tell. :)

As a side note, would anyone guess that de_cbble is set in France? ;)

 I can tell and I knew.

It wasn't bound to one nation but to one region, because at that time, what matters the most was resources. You wasn't able to get rocks or woods from too far apart in great quantities, so you had to do what you can with what you had, and that led to choices that made part of the style of buildings. In addition, architects weren't the most important people there, the one with real powers in the decision were those who ordered the building and those who built it.

Which castles have you been visiting?

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 I can tell and I knew.

It wasn't bound to one nation but to one region, because at that time, what matters the most was resources. You wasn't able to get rocks or woods from too far apart in great quantities, so you had to do what you can with what you had, and that led to choices that made part of the style of buildings. In addition, architects weren't the most important people there, the one with real powers in the decision were those who ordered the building and those who built it.

Which castles have you been visiting?

Yes of course, though limestone and granite are common in both Germany and France. We're talking neighbouring countries with comparative geology. Fact of the matter remains that castles in both France and Germany share aesthetic traits and materials, and that build times would sometimes prolong resulting in different styles. The Mansard roof of Scepter is commonplace all across Europe for instance. Just like you suggest, the person who pays for the castle is ultimately the one who decides in which style to build, meaning they could build whatever they like.

I haven't visited any castles outside of my home country. Internet studies are adequate.

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Of course they are common, they were better than other existing things ;)

I've done both countries and they are different. Materials are the same,  but they are still different, like carrots are a bit differents between places. Anyway, I was just expressing my opinion, you don't have to agree. There's a good book for castles architecture, but I don't know if it has been translated :) I'll look that up!

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Of course they are common, they were better than other existing things ;)

I've done both countries and they are different. Materials are the same,  but they are still different, like carrots are a bit differents between places. Anyway, I was just expressing my opinion, you don't have to agree. There's a good book for castles architecture, but I don't know if it has been translated :) I'll look that up!

Crit is alwasy welcomed! :)

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Well, you already know that your layout is liked by people,  and especially since I'm not good at gameplay I won't advise you on that (you're doing great on your own for that), so I'm staying with what I know, which is architecture :) I have rediscovered another book while searching for the other, it's  Viollet-le-duc Raisonné (link ). It only covers until the 16th century but there are some really interesting stuff in that. (I won't advise you to read it all, it's roughly a 450Mo pdf.. and it is approximately 5000 pages long if I'm not mistaken, but it is like a dictionnary, so you can search articles on architectural feats which could help you design some things, for instance buttresses which are present in your map)

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Thanks to everyone who ran the playtest last night, your help is much appreciated. I wish I could have been there but my daughter needed me. I've read the logs and watched the demo, bonus points to @fnuggi for finding the ridiculous self boost out the A balcony window, that was instantly clipped :D.

Seems like most people liked the layout for the most part, though a few had issues with entering B as T. The upper pathway on B might be overpowered as you can easily duck behind the solid "railing" next to the wall while reloading. I intended for this spot to be exposed, a risk vs reward kind of balance, making it the less obvious choice to stand around as CT. Making this "railing" (for lack of a better word?) into an actual railing that you can see through might help solve this. While in competitive 5v5 I intend for people to split B more often, using mollies and coordinated flashes/smokes, as well as occasionally smoking B from mid over the rooftop, though I want the first time public players to also enjoy the map without knowing every little trick. There's also a small intrude into the wall below the upper B pathway that's going to get cut. That's a relic from an older version with a slightly different layout. I think it just overcomplicates things as it is now.

Screenshot of what I'm talking about:

de_scepter-alpha05-05-fix.thumb.jpg.a830

It would be interesting to know how fast you guys felt it was to learn the layout in comparison to other maps you play for the first time. Easier, harder or neutral?

Well, you already know that your layout is liked by people,  and especially since I'm not good at gameplay I won't advise you on that (you're doing great on your own for that), so I'm staying with what I know, which is architecture :) I have rediscovered another book while searching for the other, it's  Viollet-le-duc Raisonné (link ). It only covers until the 16th century but there are some really interesting stuff in that. (I won't advise you to read it all, it's roughly a 450Mo pdf.. and it is approximately 5000 pages long if I'm not mistaken, but it is like a dictionnary, so you can search articles on architectural feats which could help you design some things, for instance buttresses which are present in your map)

Cool! Thanks for the link, checking it out now. :)

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Well, you already know that your layout is liked by people,  and especially since I'm not good at gameplay I won't advise you on that (you're doing great on your own for that), so I'm staying with what I know, which is architecture :) I have rediscovered another book while searching for the other, it's  Viollet-le-duc Raisonné (link ). It only covers until the 16th century but there are some really interesting stuff in that. (I won't advise you to read it all, it's roughly a 450Mo pdf.. and it is approximately 5000 pages long if I'm not mistaken, but it is like a dictionnary, so you can search articles on architectural feats which could help you design some things, for instance buttresses which are present in your map)

I've always liked flying buttresses and think they would look really cool where CT enters mid from spawn. Probably look way too gothic though. :(

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 It would be interesting to know how fast you guys felt it was to learn the layout in comparison to other maps you play for the first time. Easier, harder or neutral?

I think it's comparable to cobble or mirage in terms of learning the layout, not much verticality but enough routes to add interesting lurk options, but still quite a task to learn to angles and certain strategies you can execute. The one thing that seemed to be bothering the people in the teamspeak was that there are some very powerful head peeks in certain areas.

This angle is horrible to counter as a retaking CT:

Q3fYTpL.jpg

This angle is very strong at stopping T rushes:

xgsqyUd.jpg

This angle is very strong for Ts after plant, watching for the CT rotate through the A connector:

MT2rNyu.jpg

This angle is debatable, it's a long angle like CT spawn onto A slope on mirage, except you can't be punished if you choose to play it as a ct (probably with an awp, making this position quite strong).

2mpm6Ij.jpg

I think this angle is okay for an awp vs awp duel, however if I ever wanted to contest this angle with a rifle against an awp, the person with a rifle is at a disadvantage. The balcony on A could work something like mirage's palace, where if someone is playing the long angle they're also open to the balcony where as at the moment they're only open to one or two angles.

ctSCDnA.jpg

You could just block the angle by moving the boxes or finding bigger boxes. I don't really see the balcony being too powerful if you were to give it more angles into the A bombsite as Ts already have to cross mid to get there.

 

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I've always liked flying buttresses and think they would look really cool where CT enters mid from spawn. Probably look way too gothic though. :(

You could, I think that if you make it like a church with huge tinted glass, it can make sense, especially since castles were sometimes built on existing castles, or around chapels which existed before :)

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I think it's comparable to cobble or mirage in terms of learning the layout, not much verticality but enough routes to add interesting lurk options, but still quite a task to learn to angles and certain strategies you can execute. The one thing that seemed to be bothering the people in the teamspeak was that there are some very powerful head peeks in certain areas.

-snip-

Thanks a lot for the input! I think there might be a screenshot missing from that last angle where you compare it to Mirage?

The excessive head peaks might be me subconsiously designing for 1.6 where wallbanging was more of a thing hehe ;). I'm generally fine with head peaks so long as they can be countered in a smooth fashion, see this rush-flash for example:

counter.thumb.jpg.a867ed7919f909eaef2195

Molly also works as it forces the CT to step out.

Though I agree many of those head peaks are OP. I'll be looking into them! 

You could, I think that if you make it like a church with huge tinted glass, it can make sense, especially since castles were sometimes built on existing castles, or around chapels which existed before :)

Yeah that would work! I have been toying with the idea of making the chapel stand out from the rest as an older building with a different roof and stone texture. We'll see what happens. :)

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Thanks a lot for the input! I think there might be a screenshot missing from that last angle where you compare it to Mirage?

Sorry here it is:

JISf3DM.jpg

I'm talking about the boxes to the right of my crosshair, when I said you could block the angle by making them bigger, that flash is also really nice.

 

Edited by DooM

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