[CS:GO][WIP]de_story

[Michael Greenwood]

So this is my first attempt at making a defuse map. I prefer using filler textures over dev textures and am well aware that I need to add way more/better lighting. What I'm looking for at this stage is any glaring flaws you may notice in the layout.

 

My biggest concern at the moment is A site as T's have the main entrance, the curved alt entrance, the balcony in through mid and the tunnel beside the alt entrance that gets out near the CT spawn (colored path where the truck is). The tunnel was originally supposed to be a way for CTs to get in behind the T's who are pushing hard/on the curve, but if they don't send someone to do that/watch it, it gives the Ts the ability to come onto the bombsite from 3 sides without exposing themselves. I don't know if it will, but I dont want to have to force CTs to watch an otherwise uninteresting staircase/tunnel on the rounds they dont rush/push it. 

Overview:

 

Album: http://imgur.com/a/Wh0nR

 

All feedback and criticism welcome

 

I'm also aware I did the overview wrong. I prefer the non fullbright as it shows the elevations better.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Michael Greenwood

[laminutederire]

Pointlights make very weird effects, try to put them less close to the wall or tweak their attenuation.

In addition, it doesn't seem like your skybox is doing anything, do you have an env_sun in your level for instance?

[jackophant]

@laminutederire I think you mean light_environment

env_sun is just a sprite in the sky, and doesn't actually produce any light.

[jackophant]

Oops! Double post! 

I'm also aware I did the overview wrong. I prefer the non fullbright as it shows the elevations better.

imo, I can't tell what the elevations are at all right now with that lighting. fullbright isn't necessary anyway, just something to consider, but for lighting as low as this it may have been a good idea.

You could also have edited the image more, black out the areas people can't access. That whole area on the bottom left of the overview is defunct as well, it serves no purpose other than to extend an already long corridor as it just links back up to where it splits off from.

The whole map looks far too open, and has a lot of long sight lines which means that people are going to predominantly use scoped weapons. You should want your map to have more mixed engagements.

I hear what you're saying about the dev textures, but seeing it like this is visually distracting, it looks more half arsed than half developed. The lighter colour of the dev textures make visibility a lot better as well.

[laminutederire]

@laminutederire I think you mean light_environment

env_sun is just a sprite in the sky, and doesn't actually produce any light.

yes sorry I replied too quickly, my bad.

[Michael Greenwood]

Pointlights make very weird effects, try to put them less close to the wall or tweak their attenuation.

In addition, it doesn't seem like your skybox is doing anything, do you have an env_sun in your level for instance?

I do have a light environment and it does work as A site and mid dont have many light objects but are far brighter than anywhere else.

 

I'll respond to Jackophant later when I fix up the overview. I don't disagree with the comments except the one regarding textures. If I state from the start that is how I prefer doing it and you see it as half assed rather than incomplete, that's on you - not me. 

When it comes to the overview, how do I best indicate a site has a main floor, a room underneath it (that curves up and around on the left) and a balcony over it on the right. How do I indicate that the platform at mid is raised up and the path from T to CT on B side has the T's dropping down from higher up?

[jackophant]

I'll respond to jackophant later when I fix up the overview. I don't disagree with the comments except the one regarding textures. If I state from the start that is how I prefer doing it and you see it as half assed rather than incomplete, that's on you - not me. 

When it comes to the overview, how do I best indicate a site has a main floor, a room underneath it (that curves up and around on the left) and a balcony over it on the right. How do I indicate that the platform at mid is raised up and the path from T to CT on B side has the T's dropping down from higher up?

I'm not saying it is half arsed, I'm saying that's how it looks. It's fine in thinking that's what you want to do, but this is coming from a spectator. If I think it, others will too, and that's the feel you could be conveying. What you think or want isn't necessarily how the public will view it. The development textures were made for a reason... Take it from someone who used to do the same thing.

A popular method for showing different heights in the map is coloured shapes outlining the path with transparency. You could show a key and say what's low/high accordingly if you don't think it's clear enough.

[Michael Greenwood]

I'm not saying it is half arsed, I'm saying that's how it looks. It's fine in thinking that's what you want to do, but this is coming from a spectator. If I think it, others will too, and that's the feel you could be conveying. What you think or want isn't necessarily how the public will view it. The development textures were made for a reason... Take it from someone who used to do the same thing.

A popular method for showing different heights in the map is coloured shapes outlining the path with transparency. You could show a key and say what's low/high accordingly if you don't think it's clear enough.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. It may be that it is on the spectators/testers/whatever to think of it as half-assed, but at the same time my entire objective is to sell my idea to other people so I need to follow the standards so they know I'm willing to commit fully and do it right. 

 

From that, everyone seems to have a dev texture that is very light grey, almost white that looks really sleek. I have tried every dev texture I can find (filtered by 'dev') and haven't found any but the dark grey walls and the orange walls. Is it a lighting issue? Am I just missing it? Or do I have to edit the texture or something?

 

 

I've also updated the overview. The darker area on A site is a room below the main site which connects to the tunnel to CT and the bottom of the curve up to A site. The balcony is highlighted with the lighter grey. I removed some roofs as well to better show paths. The left entrance to mid from T is stairs up and NOT a really long line of sight. It is meant intentionally to be the quickest way through mid but also the riskiest. 

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by Michael Greenwood

[jackophant]

i type "meas" in the filter (short for measure which is part of the file name I believe), and that's enough to bring up the grey/orange textures including ones for ladders, fences, and crates.

The white colours are "reflectivity" ranging from 10% - 90% in increments of 10, comes with the grid on it, or without as a smooth effect.

Depending on the lighting everything 40% and above can look the same shade of white, so for me the main use is to distinguish between different areas/potential buildings in hammer more than anything else. I also use a dark floor (the grey grid from "meas") and pale walls for best visibility.

Another trick you can use is to work with the 3D window set to "flat textured" so textures are irrelevant, it simply colours your brushes based on their type. world brushes are shades of blue, func_details are shades of green etc.

[Michael Greenwood]

Oops! Double post! 

imo, I can't tell what the elevations are at all right now with that lighting. fullbright isn't necessary anyway, just something to consider, but for lighting as low as this it may have been a good idea.

You could also have edited the image more, black out the areas people can't access. That whole area on the bottom left of the overview is defunct as well, it serves no purpose other than to extend an already long corridor as it just links back up to where it splits off from.

The whole map looks far too open, and has a lot of long sight lines which means that people are going to predominantly use scoped weapons. You should want your map to have more mixed engagements.

I hear what you're saying about the dev textures, but seeing it like this is visually distracting, it looks more half arsed than half developed. The lighter colour of the dev textures make visibility a lot better as well.

 

Been muddling with the layout in photoshop and I want to see if this looks like it's going in the right direction. I removed the extraneous path in the bottom left. Made B-site more of a 2 stage takeover (like A long doors -> site on dust 2 or mid/doors -> a site on inferno) while also giving options for avoiding long lines of sight and giving SMG/aggressive players more options. The only really long lines that remain are A site down A-main and lower tunnels down to T area in the bottom left, both of which are super easy to smoke without revealing yourself. The only other long sight line remaining is sniper nest towards stairs at mid, but that's intentional. It is supposed to be a high risk area to go at the start for T's. 

[Michael Greenwood]

Made some minor updates recently to improve some issues I foresaw in the initial playtesting I've done with bots, friends and running timing tests myself. I've removed the majority of long sightlines or gave the ability to go around them/ smoke them off as needed. I have also changed it to all dev textures (other than a few props).

The main tweaks are rearranging B-site to remove the super long/dominant angle from site to the upper right tunnels. From site you can only see the right entrance and a smoke from the left door can allow an easy flank to take down the sniper. I'm still fiddling around with B, but I like the idea of having combat viable near the drop down AND around site.

The other major change was the staircase from CT to the room under A site now is one way only (but boostable). A site has a lot of angles of attack and removing this tunnel as an easy T route is a needed change. Making it one way also gives the CTs the ability to push the Ts from both sides or the Ts can use it through boosting but will put themselves in a vulnerable situation. 

 

The green arrow is a ramp down into the room under A which enters A site up the curved ramp. The blue arrow is a ramp up into A site (A main). The T's have 2-3 different rush routes that can be very powerful but also are high risk with pre-designed crossfires to make coordination key.

 

My biggest issue at the moment is coming up with a theme. I really want to avoid the typical warehouse/eastern europe/middle east theme. The curved path and lower room, however, require some sort of decently urban/developed architecture. The 3 tiered nature of A site in general makes the most sense as some sort of industrial parking garage/shipping floor/parking area/receiving area. My best thought at the moment is go with an urban theme but have an overarching theme that implies a different locale than generic 'west/eastern europe' such as south/central american, south/south east asia or likewise. It's really holding me back at the moment.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Michael Greenwood

[Michael Greenwood]

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=472758098

I think there are a couple holes in walls and incorrect texture overlaps, but right now I'm getting the layout and timing all right first.

 

Updates

-Removed path directly from T-spawn to mid to both reduce number of stairs, slightly increase T times and remove T head peek advantage.

-Re built B site to be a 2 tier taking process and remove the long angle from site to entry doors. Also gave T's ability to smoke main entrance to B and come in from left, but leaving themselves open to sniper room. 

-Removed path from CT to lower A. Made door from upper A onto balcony over lower A to give CTs better defense against an A split push.

-With strength of mid push by T's, made line of site from couple OK B spots to be able to see any T's going up mid ramp.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Michael Greenwood