[WIP] de_faer

[shadder]

 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456836857 (the map is in a very raw state and probably not even playable atm, try at your own risk xD)

Hey, this is a map that I've been working on for some months. The map's layout is finished but I will still change it based on feedback. Here are some screenshots: 

 

 

View from A site:

Another view of A:

View of mid:

Another view of mid:

View of B:

Another view of B:

View of T mid:

 

That's it for now. I know I still have to work on detailing the map and it may seem kinda small, I'm also working and that and I would love to hear your feedback! 

Edited July 11, 2015 by shadder

[Guni]

It would be a good move by you, if you were to release a workshop link even if it is in the alpha stages. Play-testing and having people being able to find what may not work in the map is a really important and crucial part to building your map. Remember you are building for the community first, yourself second.

So I will try to do my best with feedback but I really don't have much to work off yet. The overview is what I am going to focus on, because it gives me the most information regarding the flow.

> Two Long's is not really needed and just seems like a way to back-rage the opposition. I would recommend removing the second long path and keeping it to one long.

> Your Middle and especially B site, are really really far away from spawns. It looks as if it takes long for CT's to arrive at B site than T's. There is basically no benefit to going for B site, unless you wanted to sneak it while everyone sits around A site. To fix this spacing and timing issues, try moving your T and CT spawns further down the map, so they are in-between the two sites, or at-least closer to middle. Maybe even try bringing the sites slight closer to the CT's.

> That pathway leading from the Connector towards what i assume is CT Entrance into B is un-needed. Remove it and keep it simple.

> A site and Short seem like one whole area, and It looks like they are assimilating middle. Try to show that these are all separate paths, not just one big open field.

> If you start to question layout or timings, I definitely would recommend looking into Jacks Pants. Surprisingly the thread isn't as small as you would think ;P

Hopefully some of this helps you re-balance your map. Goodluck!

[shadder]

> Two Long's is not really needed and just seems like a way to back-rage the opposition. I would recommend removing the second long path and keeping it to one long.

Alright, I'll remove it.

Your Middle and especially B site, are really really far away from spawns. It looks as if it takes long for CT's to arrive at B site than T's. There is basically no benefit to going for B site, unless you wanted to sneak it while everyone sits around A site. To fix this spacing and timing issues, try moving your T and CT spawns further down the map, so they are in-between the two sites, or at-least closer to middle. Maybe even try bringing the sites slight closer to the CT's.
 

I will look into that. What do you mean by "no benefit to going for B site" ? Do you mean that T's shouldn't go there because CT's will already be there? Doesn't that happen on multiple maps?

 

> That pathway leading from the Connector towards what i assume is CT Entrance into B is un-needed. Remove it and keep it simple.

Those are vents. I thought they were good because they would give T's more incentive to take control of that area and be able to take control of B easier and also surprise rotating CT's. I am looking for feedback on that subject.

> A site and Short seem like one whole area, and It looks like they are assimilating middle. Try to show that these are all separate paths, not just one big open field.

How could I do that? I tried putting walls on the side but it wouldn't play that good. 

-

And about the workshop, I read that if you are not certain about your map that I shouldn't post the workshop link. I am not entirely sure this map will be good enough to entry the competition and I also don't believe in my abilites to finish it till then :D. This is the link however if any of you want to try it better: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456836857

[Guni]

Alright, I'll remove it.

I will look into that. What do you mean by "no benefit to going for B site" ? Do you mean that T's shouldn't go there because CT's will already be there? Doesn't that happen on multiple maps?

 

Those are vents. I thought they were good because they would give T's more incentive to take control of that area and be able to take control of B easier and also surprise rotating CT's. I am looking for feedback on that subject.

How could I do that? I tried putting walls on the side but it wouldn't play that good. 

-

And about the workshop, I read that if you are not certain about your map that I shouldn't post the workshop link. I am not entirely sure this map will be good enough to entry the competition and I also don't believe in my abilites to finish it till then :D. This is the link however if any of you want to try it better: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456836857

Benefit probably wasn't the right word to use, more so it's sort of redundant to go there. Im not sure about timings for CT and T to get to the site but it seems so far away, CT's will probably arrive just at the same time if not later to B, making it really hard to play that site. Most of the players can roam mid and A at the same time so i suppose you could just put half your team down at B, but I don't think that's a healthy approach.

Personally, I never think its a good idea to allow the attacking team to have an easy way to go behind you. You want to make it a strong opportunity to go via connector but not to the point that it makes holding a site impossible. If T's get control of connector at the current state of the map. They can enter through all three locations, meaning CT's need to watch three entrances (one being there own spawn route).

You don't necessarily need to separate them, but being able to see A site from middle is a bit strange. Could work, but most likely not. You could try moving A a bit further away from Middle, or Middle could be moved down closer to B. Experiment and Test.

It is completely up to you of course, but by posting in this section it is implied that you have intentions of competing, even if you don't finish the map, you can still learn from this experience. Definitely give testing a try, it will make your map and understanding that much better!

[blackdog]

> Your Middle and especially B site, are really really far away from spawns. It looks as if it takes long for CT's to arrive at B site than T's. There is basically no benefit to going for B site, unless you wanted to sneak it while everyone sits around A site. To fix this spacing and timing issues, try moving your T and CT spawns further down the map, so they are in-between the two sites, or at-least closer to middle. Maybe even try bringing the sites slight closer to the CT's.

timings probably need adjusting, but I don't see why the basic idea should be wrong.

having CT much closer to one site should motivate T to attack the other one, so there you start a game of wits of "are T faking?" sort of thing.

CT could rush middle and push T into a corner… but say one guy sneaks long A he would be flanking/be behind.

other maps have done similar thing. The very Dust 2 CT don't defend on the A site but past it.

The truth is in the playtest :]

~

Map theme is overused, unless you're just getting ready for playtest, I would investigate other options cos I'm sure can find something more exciting that will fit the layout ;) 

[Guni]

timings probably need adjusting, but I don't see why the basic idea should be wrong.

having CT much closer to one site should motivate T to attack the other one, so there you start a game of wits of "are T faking?" sort of thing.

CT could rush middle and push T into a corner… but say one guy sneaks long A he would be flanking/be behind.

other maps have done similar thing. The very Dust 2 CT don't defend on the A site but past it.

The truth is in the playtest :]

~

Map theme is overused, unless you're just getting ready for playtest, I would investigate other options cos I'm sure can find something more exciting that will fit the layout  

I'm not saying its wrong, I just don't think its balanced or will work effectively with the way it is currently being implemented. Dust 2 still allows for CT's to arrive at B site with a bit of time to spare, however this currently does not treat itself the same. Wont know until he test's it however.

[blackdog]

Yeah but I wouldn't move the CT spawn, rather the bombsite bit to the right and eventually T bit down to make timings to either bombsite closer together.

[shadder]

Thanks for the replies guys! 

For the timings, the T's arrive at A site in 8-9 seconds while the CT's in 5-6 and for B site the CT's are in the CT entrance in 10 seconds while the T's are in the B main entrance in the same time, so I guess I have to make the CT's reach B faster. I guess I'll use both of your ideas and move both T and CT spawn more in the middle and move B site to the right. Thanks!

[jackophant]

don't forget to use bot_show_battlefront 1 to see where the contact points are before making any rushed decisions.