[WIP] Cs_Rime - Hostage Map (Official Renamed)

[ScottehBoeh]

I don't think anyone's accusing you of "breaking rules", or trying to tell you what to do. It's just honest feedback, and you ignore it at your peril.

The thing with "realism" in games is that most players' knowledge/expectation of many parts of the world has been informed by the pop-culture references that have gone before, so sometimes in order to suspend disbelief you have to bend or normalize the truth. If a few people on this forum think that your visual direction is a bit off, it's likely a lot of players in the wider community will as well, and that could hurt its chances at success.

What's more worrying to me is that it seems like you've borrowed the two most distinctive features of insertion (teleportation and fog), so you map is always going to be somewhat hamstrung by associations with that map (negative or positive). If I were you I would just take the teleportation idea and do something completely different visually to make it distinct. If you're trying to encourage players to invent interesting new strategies, copying another map that already did that probably isn't the right way to go.

But hey, your map your rules, so what does it matter what I think.

I like your comment. It's made me think. I will be continuing this map, however. and I have permissions and extra help from Oskmos (creator of Insertion) himself. He is delighted that I'm using the teleportation method for the map.

[P1g3oN]

I know it doesn't work with the theme but i would reduce the fog (and set it the color of the skybox, white looks wrong) and have a wall around the town that is mostly broken but blocks vision from some parts of the map. Also, only 1 letter H shows up on the minimap so you should use the one with rescue zones drawn.

[ScottehBoeh]

I've updated the texture types and changed the map theme to Snow. Hopefully this will make the map seem more "geographically accurate" but thanks for the suggestions anyways!

[jackophant]

My map, My rules.

Great mindset, brb...

 

Snow isn't a theme, and the trees you showed in your evidence were some sort of palm tree, not the pine trees you have been using.

@text_fish very aptly put, excuse my crudeness (jumped straight on the eye-rolling bandwagon when i read OP) 

Edited June 30, 2015 by jackophant

[UnknownPredator]

Guys, chill down lol. Anyways, just by looking at the radar I think that spawn point D is a bit too far out and should be placed more to the left. If you replaced the asphalt textures and the grass textures with something new, I think it'd look a million times better. The middle of the map, near the village could also use some foliage or grass up against the walls, stains, etc. The map looks pretty good so far, and seems promising

[P1g3oN]

The snow is better but PLEASE reduce the fog, or change the max thickness (or whatever it is) to something lower that 1. The only thing that will be remembered from this map is that it tried to be a copy of cs_insertion. To make a good map you have to be somewhat original. Being original is difficult with defuse maps but with hostage maps it's easier because there are less hostage maps overall. Also, i have not played any matches on this map but it will probably be luck and aim sided. People are just lurking in the fog hoping to find someone and if they do the guy with better aim or the one who is behind the other wins. You can't really have any tactics on a map where skill wins. Compare that to cs_agency (and all competitive de_ maps except de_dust2 where everyone knows every tactic.) where you can have coordinated pushes to different chokepoints of the map so even 5 not so good players with communication can beat 5 good players who have no communication. This map has so much potential but it's wasted because you won't try anything new. Also, here's a video comparing your fog and my edited fog: https://youtu.be/IVexYnvVBS8

Edit: I saw from the video that my fog is too green (still a huge improvement) so if you will change it play around with it a little more to get it perfect.

Edited June 30, 2015 by P1g3oN

[ScottehBoeh]

The snow is better but PLEASE reduce the fog, or change the max thickness (or whatever it is) to something lower that 1. The only thing that will be remembered from this map is that it tried to be a copy of cs_insertion. To make a good map you have to be somewhat original. Being original is difficult with defuse maps but with hostage maps it's easier because there are less hostage maps overall. Also, i have not played any matches on this map but it will probably be luck and aim sided. People are just lurking in the fog hoping to find someone and if they do the guy with better aim or the one who is behind the other wins. You can't really have any tactics on a map where skill wins. Compare that to cs_agency (and all competitive de_ maps except de_dust2 where everyone knows every tactic.) where you can have coordinated pushes to different chokepoints of the map so even 5 not so good players with communication can beat 5 good players who have no communication. This map has so much potential but it's wasted because you won't try anything new. Also, here's a video comparing your fog and my edited fog: https://youtu.be/IVexYnvVBS8

Edit: I saw from the video that my fog is too green (still a huge improvement) so if you will change it play around with it a little more to get it perfect.

Pigeon. I am WORKING WITH OSKMOS. He is the CREATOR of cs_insertion. I have all permissions from him and we're designing this map together!

[NihiL]

Pigeon. I am WORKING WITH OSKMOS. He is the CREATOR of cs_insertion. I have all permissions from him and we're designing this map together!

Doesn't this disqualify the map from entering the competition? Working together with someone that already had their map featured? This sounds like another tricky fringe case of rule abusal hehe, sorry to whoever has to 'judge' these cases, must've be pretty shitty...

 

Apart from that I can't really say anything about the map. I hated the gameplay on Insertion and consider it a failed experiment, it didn't have anything to do with CS and everybody I know and follow disliked having to play on it, so I can't say anything positive about this 'version' of the idea either. Additionally, I have to say, it seems that the author is not capable of taking constructive criticism or even interested in it so I don't know why the thread even exists.

[P1g3oN]

Pigeon. I am WORKING WITH OSKMOS. He is the CREATOR of cs_insertion. I have all permissions from him and we're designing this map together!

I know, but community doesn't care and remember who made the map. And it is really hard to make a map like cs_insertion. It has to be VERY thought out and even then it probably play poorly adn everyone remember it as a remake.

Apart from that I can't really say anything about the map. I hated the gameplay on Insertion and consider it a failed experiment, it didn't have anything to do with CS and everybody I know and follow disliked having to play on it, so I can't say anything positive about this 'version' of the idea either.

IMO cs_insertion was playable but if you would try to recrate it with a different layout it will fail 90% of the time. 

But afterall, why should you listen to me, a kid from Estonia who tries to help you.

[Oskmos]

[ScottehBoeh]

Well I'm releasing it to the competition anyways. I like the map alongside other people who think about the "fun" side and not the most "competitive" side. It's a hobby.

[jackophant]

 

Well I'm releasing it to the competition anyways. I like the map alongside other people who think about the "fun" side and not the most "competitive" side. It's a hobby.

I guess by that logic I'll just submit a Portal map because it's just a hobby!

There is literally nothing more frustrating than someone posting on here and ignoring feedback. You can't cherry-pick what you want to hear.

Why would people want to come back and provide feedback at all if this is your reaction? If you are this closed to input, then it's your loss not ours.

[ScottehBoeh]

 

I guess by that logic I'll just submit a Portal map because it's just a hobby!

There is literally nothing more frustrating than someone posting on here and ignoring feedback. You can't cherry-pick what you want to hear.

Why would people want to come back and provide feedback at all if this is your reaction? If you are this closed to input, then it's your loss not ours.

I'm not ignoring feedback. I've just decided to disagree with it.

[Vaya]

Doesn't this disqualify the map from entering the competition? Working together with someone that already had their map featured? This sounds like another tricky fringe case of rule abusal hehe, sorry to whoever has to 'judge' these cases, must've be pretty shitty...

 

It's literally the only rule. I'm impressed!

I'm guessing it depends on the level on input though? If their name is not on the workshop page does it count?

[jackophant]

I'm not ignoring feedback. I've just decided to disagree with it.

Yes, in your infinite wisdom... I'm sure it'll be a fantastic map, good luck with it. Oskmos should be honoured to work with you.