Conservative Religious Right crosses the line in Florida.

[Steppenwolf]

Guess you missed the smilie. I don't mind drugs, or who uses them, at all. I just found what you wrote to be the most pretentious drivel I've heard in a long while.

Drugs the deepest experience ever? Perhaps for a teenager. Life has more to offer in the long run.

What is your picture of drugs? Im sure you think of drunked people, junkies etc. You should know that there are very different drugs out there. Most of them are useless to have a deep or spiritual experience but some of them (entheogenics like Mescaline, Psylocibine, DMT, Salvia to name a few natural ones) are the most powerfull tools the nature (or god if you believe in him) has given us humans.

This can only understand who knows the experience. Shamen of all cultures have used these substances over thousands of years to get in contact with god or "travel through time and space". There are theorys that these plants were the reason at all why people started to develope the idea of god.

Before i made my experiments with these kind of drugs i was an atheist who only believed in science. Now i still believe in science and things like the evolution theory but i have also learned to believe in the existance of god. I know now that there is more behind reality then we could ever imagine in our usual state of conciousness.

I'm too lazy to write more now. I know that most people will never understand it and will laugh at it. But who wants to know more can read here:

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/lsdmenu.htm

Its a online library full with books and texts about psychedelic experiences, sciene, analysis etc.. They have also the book from famous Albert Hoffmann.

[RD]

I understand what u mean Step. U ar absolutely right, but still ease up on the drugs even if u want to experiment

[Pericolos0]

how do you know drugs arent creating a hallucination so realistic that you start believing it?

[RD]

how do you know drugs arent creating a hallucination so realistic that you start believing it?

Ofcourse drugs do that. But ur brain without drugs also creates a reality so realistic we believe it

[Kosmo]

How exactly evolution does not break the intelligent design? The intelligent design suggest that to the point where is was created everything was balanced on a tip of surgical knife, it is that what makes it so intelligent after all, and if there is evolution there is no control, if there is no control the whole design fails, it's like designing a car and making the gas a on and off switch, the luck of the driver will decide the outcome of the cruise.

Your heart evolves when u get older as well, it grows just like your whole body, but it doesnt break intelligent design does it?

Evolution doesnt mean there is no control. The koran for example describes guided evolution (guided by allah ofcourse :roll: ). One of his billion nicknames is the evolver. And strangely enough... this was written a millenium before the theory of evolution Jesus

You are starting to sound like some sort of religious zealoth, and how does it proof that evolution is controlled because it was said so in koran? Besides if god/household deity #x is in control of evolution wouldn't that break the all knowingness of god and proof that he still is a science kid not knowing what he is doing and by evolution he is making sure that he minimizes the damages done to his grand design?

Besides, I wouldn't call heart growing in time 'evolution', your nose and ears grow through your life and it's not evolution, they can't sprout eyes and start speaking, nor can heart.

[Steppenwolf]

RD: i dont make experiments with such drugs anymore. Its a few years ago now.

Peri: nobody can know what is real and what not. You can just believe it or not. And believing doesnt mean to know. Its completely relative like everything else in life. Nobody can know if god exists and nobody can know if nature laws are real or just a imagination that only works in our dimension of reality. Even if scientists find the world formula it would proove nothing. We would be stupid as before if we ask us the question "are we real?" or "does god exist?".

[RD]

You are starting to sound like some sort of religious zealoth, and how does it proof that evolution is controlled because it was said so in koran?

Ofcourse thers no proof. I was just saying it because u were saying that evolution disproves intelligent design, while its actually part of the theory.

Besides if god/household deity #x is in control of evolution wouldn't that break the all knowingness of god and proof that he still is a science kid not knowing what he is doing and by evolution he is making sure that he minimizes the damages done to his grand design?

How would evolution break the allknowingness of a god? Try explain, whats so dumb about life having the power to adapt to all circumstances

[Kosmo]

You are starting to sound like some sort of religious zealoth, and how does it proof that evolution is controlled because it was said so in koran?

Ofcourse thers no proof. I was just saying it because u were saying that evolution disproves intelligent design, while its actually part of the theory.

Yes well anything that needs fixin and adjusting over time is not that intelligent :roll:

Besides if god/household deity #x is in control of evolution wouldn't that break the all knowingness of god and proof that he still is a science kid not knowing what he is doing and by evolution he is making sure that he minimizes the damages done to his grand design?

How would evolution break the allknowingness of a god? Try explain, whats so dumb about life having the power to adapt to all circumstances

If god was allpowerfull and all knowing, he wouldn't need evolution to keep his creations adapting to all circumstances, or do you call it allknowing if you don't actually know all? The evolution itself is not dumb, on the contrary, it is actually very intelligent, but the idea of something like god designing evolution is just plain stupid.

[Tequila]

Well, Step, it seems like you have deep system of beliefs revolving around your drug-induced experiences. I can't really comment on it, since my dabbling with the stuff is limited, but I'm comfortable with you believing what you want to, regardless of it seeming potentially artificial to me.

Then again, everything could be seen as artificial, even religious beliefs. That's why I have faith, not religion, and I don't bother questioning life when there is no answer.

[Schmung]

Mushrooms actually made me (if indeed it is possible) more of an atheist. Realsing just how much our perception of the world is shaped by our brains pretty much knocked it on the head for me. Truly crazybonkers though, I can't even really describe some of it, but having your brain inform you that your hand feels cabbage and that everything is tricycle and utterly believing and comprehending both things while at the same time not knowing or understanding any of it is pretty mental.

[RD]

Yes well anything that needs fixin and adjusting over time is not that intelligent :roll:

Well there are much dumber things if u think evolution is like that. For example, why arent we born as fullgrown muscled humans, why do we need to be fixed to survive?

I think u confuse intelligent design with perfect design. If a god wanted us to be perfect, he would have made us immortal robots capable of living in space, underwater or in vulcanos , without free will ,because with free will u can do bad things and if bad things can happen, god isnt intelligent right?

Even the mainstream religions cover this question because evrytime someone dies theres ppl asking why he wasnt immortal

If god was allpowerfull and all knowing, he wouldn't need evolution to keep his creations adapting to all circumstances, or do you call it allknowing if you don't actually know all? The evolution itself is not dumb, on the contrary, it is actually very intelligent, but the idea of something like god designing evolution is just plain stupid.

Try explain why evolution is very intelligent, but it would be dumb if god designed it? Do you think there is another way?

[Kosmo]

Yes well anything that needs fixin and adjusting over time is not that intelligent :roll:

Well there are much dumber things if u think evolution is like that. For example, why arent we born as fullgrown muscled humans, why do we need to be fixed to survive?

I think u confuse intelligent design with perfect design. If a god wanted us to be perfect, he would have made us immortal robots capable of living in space, underwater or in vulcanos , without free will ,because with free will u can do bad things and if bad things can happen, god isnt intelligent right?

Even the mainstream religions cover this question because evrytime someone dies theres ppl asking why he wasnt immortal

The perfect you described is nowhere near perfect, fullgrown muscled robots with no mind, perfect is to be experienced, experienced through different stages of life, perfect is to be weak at some point, if we weren't weak sometimes, we would be much more vulnerable than we would be if we would be immortal, to survive through life is rigorgorous, and thus makes us perfect in imperfect way. Remember, the perfect line is not always straight, it is what it should be to fit it's position. If you are questioning imperfections due to physical incapabilities or mental ones, such as why we can't live in volcanoes is evolutionaily explained through that we hae found ways to do so without altering our bodies, and religiously through "god made man as an image of himself" thus it would seem that god is an imperfect being with chance to be wrong, but because belief relies on the fact that god is never wrong, it is thusly destroying itself.

If god was allpowerfull and all knowing, he wouldn't need evolution to keep his creations adapting to all circumstances, or do you call it allknowing if you don't actually know all? The evolution itself is not dumb, on the contrary, it is actually very intelligent, but the idea of something like god designing evolution is just plain stupid.

Try explain why evolution is very intelligent, but it would be dumb if god designed it? Do you think there is another way?

God, the deity who is supposed to create all things divine and unholy, he created two sides to everything, to bring balance. Evolution brought balance till man rose through creatures to be the dominant one, and once tipping the balance off, so is god destroying us right now? We are the ones that control the so called balance, we create medical treatmenst to fight the deceases evolution brings us, and we extinct species that could harm us, so are WE gods? Certainly not, since we can be killed by mere ballistic object, OR if we are gods image, he could have been killed by small piece of metal going faster than speed of sound, maybe someone already killed god, and that is why we have not evidence of his existence.

So, ask me again, do I think if there is any intelligence at all in this so called intelligent design.

[RD]

do u?

[The Postman]

Try explain why evolution is very intelligent, but it would be dumb if god designed it? Do you think there is another way?

Evolution isn't intelligent and it isn't dumb. There is no higher level of evolution it just is. There is no good evolution and no bad evolution. It's so mindnumbingly simple.

[Steppenwolf]

Mushrooms actually made me (if indeed it is possible) more of an atheist. Realsing just how much our perception of the world is shaped by our brains pretty much knocked it on the head for me. Truly crazybonkers though, I can't even really describe some of it, but having your brain inform you that your hand feels cabbage and that everything is tricycle and utterly believing and comprehending both things while at the same time not knowing or understanding any of it is pretty mental.

well mushrooms only bring on top what was already in you all the time. i grow up as atheist but maybe there was already a form of spiritualism in me and i just didnt know. For me the shrooms opened that hidden door. For you they obviously opened a different door.

Also the trip can be different every time. After my first trips i thought the small little mushies are the key to heaven on earth, love & peace for everybody and all that hippie stuff but later i have learned that they can also be the key to a very bizarr hell.