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I don`t know where to put this, so I will just put it here: you promoted this contest with playtesting support, which was the only reason I was excited to participate in this contest. The playtesting page says "first come first serve", yeah nice, but at the same time there is an approval stage anyway. I can understand that you don`t want to playtest 500 orange-/greybox maps, but I applied my map for playtesting which already is more advanced than that stage. Besides playtesting in the orange-/greybox stage makes more sense in my opinion. If you playtest only finished maps then whats the point? Those are already playtested, they have a big lead in this contest already, you make the rich people richer.

Now after this little rant I don`t know if I want to continue to work on my map, because I have no idea if it will work or not, and in a contest of this caliber I HAVE to know if the map works, otherwise I am wasting my time (yeah yeah learning by doing, learning from mistakes, experience blabla).

If my map suddenly DOES get accepted for playtesting it will be an awkward situation I think after this rant, sounds like I am a mad little kid, so I just say I don`t want it anymore and will (maybe) abandon my map, not that it will have any impact, but I just hope you care about the contest participants... At the moment the contest just feels like a big attention magnet to get some attention on the biggest, best maps and this website and get the best map possible by refining and iterating over the already established maps (which makes sense for the game's and developer's sake and reputation of this website)

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I don`t know where to put this, so I will just put it here: you promoted this contest with playtesting support, which was the only reason I was excited to participate in this contest. The playtesting page says "first come first serve", yeah nice, but at the same time there is an approval stage anyway. I can understand that you don`t want to playtest 500 orange-/greybox maps, but I applied my map for playtesting which already is more advanced than that stage. Besides playtesting in the orange-/greybox stage makes more sense in my opinion. If you playtest only finished maps then whats the point? Those are already playtested, they have a big lead in this contest already, you make the rich people richer.

Now after this little rant I don`t know if I want to continue to work on my map, because I have no idea if it will work or not, and in a contest of this caliber I HAVE to know if the map works, otherwise I am wasting my time (yeah yeah learning by doing, learning from mistakes, experience blabla).

If my map suddenly DOES get accepted for playtesting it will be an awkward situation I think after this rant, sounds like I am a mad little kid, so I just say I don`t want it anymore and will (maybe) abandon my map, not that it will have any impact, but I just hope you care about the contest participants... At the moment the contest just feels like a big attention magnet to get some attention on the biggest, best maps and this website and get the best map possible by refining and iterating over the already established maps (which makes sense for the game's and developer's sake and reputation of this website)

https://www.mapcore.org/topic/17116-mapcore-csgo-playtesting-40/ 10vs10 playtesting here. I can't comment on reddit's playtesting style- I think it's only really good for mappers that are at the stage of tweaking cover/optimisation rather than grayboxes to be honest.

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I have to agree. The maps that get the most comments are always the mostly finished ones. I thought a site just for mappers would maybe be a little les biased towards the maps that look great. I would think that more feedback would be given to the maps that need it, not the ones that are near enough finished.

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There's more to comment on when it's further along visually. We can see pictures and question use of certain props/colours/textures.

If you want to talk about gameplay then people need to create better posts WITH a radar view so we can actually see rotation time. When you see the same mistakes happening again and again it gets tiring to have to repeat yourself and a lot of time feedback is ignored. Becoming proficient with hammer is one thing, but when people create maps with roads that are 1000 pixels wide and 4000 long there isn't really much to say other than "have you ever played counter strike before?"

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There's more to comment on when it's further along visually. We can see pictures and question use of certain props/colours/textures.

If you want to talk about gameplay then people need to create better posts WITH a radar view so we can actually see rotation time. When you see the same mistakes happening again and again it gets tiring to have to repeat yourself and a lot of time feedback is ignored. Becoming proficient with hammer is one thing, but when people create maps with roads that are 1000 pixels wide and 4000 long there isn't really much to say other than "have you ever played counter strike before?"

Well then tell them that. We don't want hammer mapping to become an elite art only a few are allowed to know. Talk to them, suggest better widths. Say something like: "Hey, just so you know, roads in hammer should be 128 units wide per lane." I fall into the trap of ignoring them too but remember at some point you were making your first maps like that and would have died for some really helpful feedback.

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I have to agree. The maps that get the most comments are always the mostly finished ones. I thought a site just for mappers would maybe be a little les biased towards the maps that look great. I would think that more feedback would be given to the maps that need it, not the ones that are near enough finished.

Best way to get a slew of feedback is to submit it for a 10vs10 playtest. There's over 100 threads in here so if you (the mapper- not you personally) aren't doing something to standout --ANYTHING-- you will be lost in an ocean of other greybox maps. If you just post a thread and it doesn't have enough decent screenshots you're basically committing yourself to nothing- who is going to spend the time downloading and running your map if you tell and show them nothing of it?

If you get a playtest slot you will always get feedback about your layout. If people find the layout interesting as well then future forum posts will get a reaction.

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it would be nice if the reddit playtesting thing would actually tell you why your map doesn`t get picked for the next playtest. I don`t have 4000 units long roads. I have no idea why my map wasn`t chosen. But doesn`t matter, I will apply for the other playtesting thing Vaya posted.

Edited by crowbAr

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From a general testing perspective, rough prototypes (ie greyboxes) will never be popular amongst people who have a limited knowledge of what it takes to make an Operations-quality map. Hell, most people here would probably rather playtest something that looks great rather than testing grey layout after layout with no clue about what the theme is. jack said it pretty simple, if you cannot be bothered with posting a proper overview and some times, then how can you expect people to playtesting it? Timings are the simplest way of making sure that your layout is at least not completely far fetched. If you have no clue what the times should be like, then spend 10 minutes on a couple of different official and operations map to give you an idea about arrival times and chokepoint times. There are also other options for playtests out there, I'm sure you have at least 1 friend (even just a Steam friend) and that can actually do wonders without sitting around waiting for a slot to open up. Be proactive and look for solutions to your problem.

Another idea is to build one area up the the standard you want. If CT spawn looks fucking sweet and you give it a bit of a context, I'm sure people will be more interested in helping you out with testing as they are able to see the potential of your skill level and hopefully the potential of the map. If you think it's a waste of time to do it this way, then just think of the fact that you can recycle the theme and the part you built even though the rest of the layout is about as fun as having your nutsack pinched in your zipper.

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This is just my opinion, but i love play testing grey box levels and early levels as a mapper. It gives you quite a lot on insight on what todo and not todo when trying to design a level yourself. I probably wouldn't have learned how important timing is if i didn't play those levels. Plus the fact your getting to play with people who also like making levels is fun,besides screaming through the mic is always fun too.

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TopHattWafle & 3kliksphillip have mentioned by 'Vaya', and 'not-a-ninja'. But i will mention them again.

First Time.
If you never make a map or wanna learn for the first time, my suggestion is to watch TopHattWafle's videos, cause he have all basic tutorial, easy to understand, and also he make explanation on his web in each videos. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-454Fe3dQH1L38FnKkz_O1CqYx6sKaXk

Basic Questions/Problems.
Then, during learn Hammer, sure i will have a lot basic questions/problems. But, where i can ask my problem if i have basic problems/questions? Firstly, i was wanna ask at MapCore, but my questions is too basic/simple, cause i think MapCore is for experienced/expert map maker.
I suggest to ask/just read at https://www.reddit.com/r/hammer/. Theres many post/thread that you can read for a new map maker like me. 

Sorry for bad English, hope it help for a new map maker like me xD

Edited by Isan Arditama

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Video about CS:GO map design by WarOwl: :)

Helpful for newbies.

Sounds like reddits opinion condensed into 1 video. A lot of it is common sense but a lot of it is also guff.

Tunnels is the only 'unique' area on dust2 and inferno is pretty much the same - inside or outside - I notice he omitted these as examples...

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