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[WIP] DE_STGELLERT

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Thank you everyone for expressing your thoughts towards our entering!

We don't wanted to ruin fair competition here at all, so let me say what i think why Gellert maybe isn't such a fearsome competitor:

The fact it's visually pretty much finished brings a time penalty on us, because you can change a rough shell faster than an all detailed scene.
Secondly, if you saw FMPONE's GDC presentation about CSGO level design theory, and if you look at the layout of Gellert you know the map still have problems related to verticality.

If everybody still thinks this entry is wrong, maybe We can leave and think alternatives. Let us know.

​Don't leave, just expressing my opinion :)

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I also think its a bit unfair, but leaving the contest completely is also unfair for you I think.

But I have an off-topic question you dont have to answer: Did Valve just contact you and told you that your map was a potential candidate for an Operation but that it didnt meet their requirements or whatever OR did you somehow contact Valve and dunno asked them about it XD? I'm just curious about this :)

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I really don't see too much of a problem with this submission. I always had thought this never received the full attention it deserved when it was originally released honestly. It's simply amazing to look at although I have never actually played a comp match on it. Hope to see some new things come out of Gellert during this contest.

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I'm not pro but i think contest should not be about winner but about trying to create quality content. 

Yee.. somehow mixing competition and art never felt right to me. Maybe this have to do something with your statement.

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Yee.. somehow mixing competition and art never felt right to me. Maybe this have to do something with your statement.

​I just meant winning by quality ;) I also don't think art cooperates with competition. 

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​Don't leave, just expressing my opinion :)

​Well.. okay! :] BTW This was a good opportunity to unfold some of my view about the map right now.

 I'm happy that i finally made it to Mapcore! The way how Valve communicates and manages these operations has a big part in it tho.  :U

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I also think its a bit unfair, but leaving the contest completely is also unfair for you I think.

But I have an off-topic question you dont have to answer: Did Valve just contact you and told you that your map was a potential candidate for an Operation but that it didnt meet their requirements or whatever OR did you somehow contact Valve and dunno asked them about it XD? I'm just curious about this :)

Yes.. I can't say how this balance will end up.

Well, As i wrote to not-a-ninja  this was [i think] an exceptional situation where they contacted us, because it has the potential. But the original gameplay was too experimental for the general CSGO style. And since Vanguard came out without Gellert, [i think] they wanted to compensate/encourage us to fix it by giving a feedback.

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I really don't see too much of a problem with this submission. I always had thought this never received the full attention it deserved when it was originally released honestly. It's simply amazing to look at although I have never actually played a comp match on it. Hope to see some new things come out of Gellert during this contest.

​Thank you, I can provide you an archive where Kodiak and his team tried to play on it competitively back from January it's very early version of the current one. Sorry it's all Hungarian, but i think it's evident they have a fun and exciting time. BTW we had at least 4 of these tests, each lasted for few hours and Kodiak streamed it to twitch.

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​Don't leave. Mappers who put love and effort into creating a beautiful and playable level deserve all the chances they get to be added to the game or get something in return. Gellert is stunning. I love realistic levels based on real world locations. Expressing your fantasy; doing something in game you can never do irl. To me that is essential in games. You seem to be really fond of that hotel and you translated that perfectly into a map. 
Sucks that valve wants this to be more simple. They make the decision in the end, but that does not mean they are right all the time.

It's a perfect map for Insurgency imo. CS does not do well with verticality which to me is insanely unrealistic and boring. Same goes for a lack of pathways.
Though, not a bad game; had ton of fun in the past. But not my cup of tea any more. Especially when it does not allow these kind of realistic maps.

​Thank you, well i can't agree with you more: "Expressing your fantasy; doing something in game you can never do irl." i think you got the very dna of virtual gaming. :>

With your design you need to reach some kind of balance at different levels of aspects cohere to the game. Like this theme you mentioned, the more fun and casual vs. the raw competitive gameplay. I'm still looking into this, to find interesting things related. 

But there, you got the core of Gellert. It's a tall building, built on a mountainside. The inevitable verticality is a nut we must crack open. Right now we believe it's not perfect, but well controlled.

We already discussed a bit how the rest can be solved... but nothing solid yet. I thought all the time this map maybe can prove verticality is usable for cs.

Edited by r.man MMXV

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Well... I'm still stuck at the greyboxing phase. Better get my shit done in what... 2 and a half months? I suppose everyone gets the point. But yea, I mean, if there are no rules (= moshpit of chaos), then there's nothing that can stop you. Obviously the looks are ahead of everything that is possibly imagineable in the contest. There's absolutely no way that anyone can beat that.

The layout though is as has been said many times, very complicated. My guess would be to simply cut off any rooms that are unnecessary. Admittedly I haven't played the very last version, but I remember playing one of the middle version that were simply incredibly complicated. I had no idea where to go even with a minimap available as there are so many ways to go.

The biggest problem, however, is that because you already finished/detailed so many of the rooms and layouts, and probably tried to make it reference as much as possible to the real thing (which is something I have experience with), it's going to be a hell of a lot of work to move or change stuff. However, considering that Valve has even done the effort to contact you means they are interested in your submission for an operation. There is, as far as I have had contact with operation mappers, no godly reason Valve would even look into your direction let alone contact you if they don't want your map in an operation. That is the simple truth. So, if I were you, and I guess that's what you're going to do, I would try to do everything to simplify the layout.

So yea, on paper if you change a few rooms, and move a prop here and there, I'm sure you can run away with a first or second prize, and get into any of the future operations.

Edited by JorisCeoen

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My only concern is it's not a fair contest, time is a factor - it will discourage people from starting from scratch if people can enter almost finished work? 

I understand your concern but that's up to the contestant really. Because this contest is designed to push people to make or finish potential Operation maps. Hence the exclusion of previously Operation featured mappers. If you, as mapper, don't have a map in progress and you seriously doubt you can commit the time to make a new one, then you need to draw your own conclusions. It's not that we're deaf to constructive criticism and this is certainly not aimed at you, but those that are, for lack of better word, complaining, would be much better off spending that time working on their maps.

If everybody still thinks this entry is wrong, maybe We can leave and think alternatives. Let us know.

​The rules are clear. Your map is fair game. Good luck on polishing it.

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Any update in regards to the new layout?

Hey, thanks for asking.

We think we hit the right direction by focusing on the middle and closing most of the upper dome areas, hitting some nice nails in the coffin of verticality. :)

A few minor problems were generated by the new layout which i've been fixing in the past days. Right now i'm working on some small changes in regards of our last testing. After that i'll jump on detailing and polishing phase since my colleague is on vacation and can't help with further testing.. i'm afraid till the deadline.

 

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