Heroes of the Storm

[PogoP]

Pacing of the game looks really weird. All the animations seem really slow.

 

At least it looks like they're trying out new things with levels though which is a plus.

[Izuno]

I have done about a dozen projects in the last two years on this from really small "what is MOBA or ARTS or whatever" projects to "we are building a MOBA...help us understand why our alpha testers are telling us it sucks and we will be roadkill against the established games out there" to "Hi I'm an investor. Should I invest in MOOBLAH?  My son plays Angry Birds on my iPad so that must mean no one on earth plays on any game on a PC anymore, right?"

 

So a few things we've learned:

 

1) We like "MOBA" as the name of the genre.  Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.  Action-RTS is nice but we just flipped a coin and decided on MOBA for all our forecast, tracking and segmentation intelligence products our customers buy.  Everyone shrugs

 

2) We put MOBA under the Strategy category.  Is that right? Meh, right enough and it's just easier to think "MOBA is a type of strategy game" even if that's not exactly right from everyone's perspective.

 

3) LoL is still (as of now) the biggest game in terms of number of worldwide players.  DOTA 2 is fast gaining and really gaining outside of Asia where Valve is strongest.  In other words, it's a two giants and a bunch of smaller players.  LoL + DOTA 2 = roughly 95% of the PC MOBA space right now in terms of hours played.  But LoL is still friggin huge in China thanks to Tencent.

 

4) Everyone is asking us if Blizzard's Heroes of the Storm will stand a chance against LoL and DOTA 2.  The answer is: yes.  It will get marketshare.  It will cannibalize more than it will grow the MOBA genre. MOBA, like MMO before it, is going to hit saturation and there WILL be some genre burnout.  However we can't simply say that because WoW caused a lot of subscription MMO burnout that LOL/DOTA 2 will do the same and in exactly the same way.

 

tl;dr version:

just because you are building a MOBA does not mean you can print the $$$. Blizzard has about the best chance of anyone to successfully enter the market but MOBA is a grind like MMOs and F2P is not a cure for printing money despite what you may have heard.

[FMPONE]

Yeah I totally agree with the cannibalizing point. I think this is where I begin to shit my pants if I'm Riot Games, my biggest and basically only franchise is LoL, and bigger more established game companies are edging in on my little niche turf. 

[FrieChamp]

Yeah I totally agree with the cannibalizing point. I think this is where I begin to shit my pants if I'm Riot Games, my biggest and basically only franchise is LoL, and bigger more established game companies are edging in on my little niche turf. 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5QriRrpNjc

 

 

 

On July 12, 2013, Business Insider named Riot Games #4 on its list of the top 25 technology companies to work for in 2013

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games

 

 

Yep, definitely a niche and I'm sure they're trembling... 

[marks]

Yeah but that doesn't mean it's a good game

[2d-chris]

wut? it's an awesome game, and I don't even play it ... all of those listed games are really good, unless personal taste comes into it

[Skjalg]

LoL is not the most played, at least not if these stats are valid. I think if you just count the top two private wc3 dota server programs in china (theres many many more than that, but two will suffice), you get more played hours per month than LoL.

 

And now that dota 2 is finally released in china, Riot is getting a real challenger. I wouldn't count on Heroes of the storm just yet because its not out and we right now I'm not even sure if it will be this or the next year.

[Vilham]

Don't care, because it looks awesome and actually interesting, rather than the same generic formula of every other moba.

[FMPONE]

 

Yeah I totally agree with the cannibalizing point. I think this is where I begin to shit my pants if I'm Riot Games, my biggest and basically only franchise is LoL, and bigger more established game companies are edging in on my little niche turf. 

 

 

On July 12, 2013, Business Insider named Riot Games #4 on its list of the top 25 technology companies to work for in 2013

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games

 

 

Yep, definitely a niche and I'm sure they're trembling... 

 

 

The most played videogame in the world changes a lot throughout the years. I don't foresee LoL being number one forever...

 

and when I say niche, I think I meant genre more. Remember when the FPS genre was on top? I think the novelty of the MOBAs will wear off to some degree, although it is probably a more casual friendly genre than shooter games.

Edited November 12, 2013 by FMPONE

[FrieChamp]

 

 

Yeah I totally agree with the cannibalizing point. I think this is where I begin to shit my pants if I'm Riot Games, my biggest and basically only franchise is LoL, and bigger more established game companies are edging in on my little niche turf. 

 

 

On July 12, 2013, Business Insider named Riot Games #4 on its list of the top 25 technology companies to work for in 2013

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games

 

 

Yep, definitely a niche and I'm sure they're trembling... 

 

 

The most played videogame in the world changes a lot throughout the years. I don't foresee LoL being number one forever...

 

and when I say niche, I think I meant genre more. Remember when the FPS genre was on top? I think the novelty of the MOBAs will wear off to some degree, although it is probably a more casual friendly genre than shooter games.

 

 

But Heroes is also a MOBA...Maybe LoL is a little less hardcore than Dota 2, but if I compare the learning curve to a shooter, I'm not sure if I can agree with your statement. Back then all I had to figure out was how to point my gun at a dude. Now I need to google vocabulary like "bot", "missing", "jungler" and read a guide/watch videos on how to play a champion before standing a chance.

[Minos]

Some of the heroes and skins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ETowT2Rhr8

[FMPONE]

 

 

 

Yeah I totally agree with the cannibalizing point. I think this is where I begin to shit my pants if I'm Riot Games, my biggest and basically only franchise is LoL, and bigger more established game companies are edging in on my little niche turf. 

 

 

On July 12, 2013, Business Insider named Riot Games #4 on its list of the top 25 technology companies to work for in 2013

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Games

 

 

Yep, definitely a niche and I'm sure they're trembling... 

 

 

The most played videogame in the world changes a lot throughout the years. I don't foresee LoL being number one forever...

 

and when I say niche, I think I meant genre more. Remember when the FPS genre was on top? I think the novelty of the MOBAs will wear off to some degree, although it is probably a more casual friendly genre than shooter games.

 

 

But Heroes is also a MOBA...Maybe LoL is a little less hardcore than Dota 2, but if I compare the learning curve to a shooter, I'm not sure if I can agree with your statement. Back then all I had to figure out was how to point my gun at a dude. Now I need to google vocabulary like "bot", "missing", "jungler" and read a guide/watch videos on how to play a champion before standing a chance.

 

 

My point is that with this game, the MOBA genre is getting more crowded, leading a company like Riot imo to be facing increased competition from companies like Valve and Blizzard, which would concern me if I were in Riot's shoes, considering they really only have one (albeit huge) franchise.

 

As far as what I said about MOBAs being more casual, I should have said "family-friendly". I see a lot more women, girls, and young people playing MOBAs than I ever did shooter games, probably because shooter games are just so inherently testosterone-y, graphic and violent. For instance, my neighbor and his wife play LoL and actually encouraged me to start playing it (this was probably when I first realized how enormous LoL had gotten)... I just don't see that happening with a violent shooter game. Neither genre is inherently more easy to play, as the skill ceiling in both shooter games and MOBAs can be crazy high. 

 

 

Some of the heroes and skins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ETowT2Rhr8

 

Wonderful art.

Edited November 13, 2013 by FMPONE

[Taylor]

There's not much chance LoL is going to die overnight and Riot have announced they are working towards other, e-sports (and no-doubt pay to win*) titles. It's certainly true a lot of HotS players will be in the venn diagram of Blizzard fans and LoL players but it's going to stay successful.

 

Although, regarding the graphic, Riot do massage their data a lot. I liked it when they were reporting their total view count for the world finals, opposed to the peak unique views, and you could literally click 90% of the client and accidentally launch the stream. 

 

* Taylor, it's totally not play to win because you only have to pay for skins and you can unlock everything else like champions, runes and rune pages  by playing the game. And just because you got out a nerdy fucking spreadsheet and worked out even at three games a day with no losses this would take over four years doesn't matter. You can prove anything with facts. Besides you only need two rune pages, even though you clearly need at least three but I'm going to pretend supports don't need GP5, and the boost is like really tiny so it doesn't count.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Taylor

[FrieChamp]

FMPONE, I guess we can agree that the MOBA genre is getting pretty crowded. I only disagree that this is a problem for the established players (Riot) as opposed to new entrants (even if that is Blizzard we're talking about). In the end I'm sure all 3 of them will find their place in that genre though.

[marks]

The problem with MOBA's is they have so many moving parts that they are insanely difficult to balance -> DotA proved this by evolving in such tiny steps over such a large amount of time. Any entrant to the MOBA genre which differs heavily from DotA's formula is at risk of needing a large timeframe to iteratively balance the game to the point it's as finely tuned as DotA-likes are.

 

I would also agree that  MOBA games like DotA/LoL/HoN are far more complicated to learn how to play than FPS games. And this is coming from a guy who played counter-strike at world cyber games...