Complex brushwork?

[sevin]

I posted this over at tf2maps.net, but my initial example wasn't actually a TF2 map so I figured I'd post here as well.

 

There are tons of tutorials on the internet for doing basic things in hammer and some more specific things for the different Source engine games, but I've yet to find some nice guides for more advanced brushwork. 

 

The example that made me make this thread are the arches from the loggias in de_inferno (CS:S). I spent a couple hours a few days ago trying to build myself some arches, but I couldn't figure it out. Does anyone have any tips for this short of copy/pasting or tracing with the clipping tool?

 

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by sevin

[Tensei]

I actually quite enjoy this, but lightning past monument is terrible. It could be as dark as bedroom in this map. Maybe even lighter.

Are you making inferno remake, because i noticed something interesting on roof for environment?

[sevin]

I actually quite enjoy this, but lightning past monument is terrible. It could be as dark as bedroom in this map. Maybe even lighter.

Are you making inferno remake, because i noticed something interesting on roof for environment?

 

Did you read the post at all? I'm asking how Inferno's arches are made. Those are screenshots from the official CS:S Inferno.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sevin

[TheOnLY]

I'd go with the Vertex tool.

[Vaya]

[sevin]

I had just always assumed this kind of stuff was made by cutting around half a cylinder or something since I thought using the vertex tool would be too irregular and harder to make look nice.

[Vaya]

To be honest the brushwork by itself normally doesn't look nice.

 

you can mask the shitiness with texturing/smoothing groups/lighting though.

[Vorontsov]

You use the arch tool. Let's say you have a wall that is 128x128 in lenght and height, width is irrelevant. 

 

Now for this it would be ideal to have the grid size 128x128 also, so you copy the first wall over and put it two squares apart.

 

Now in the front view or left view (depending on where you can see the wall from eye height like this []  [])

 

Now you would want this arch to be 128x128 right? So it matches the wall perfectly etc. 

 

What you would do is use the arch tool above the walls so it would go from one to another and thsi is still all done in 128 grid size. So now above the walls you would have a 512x512 block / arch waited to be created. But since hammer is retarded you have to double this amount, so resize it up to 1024x1024 and create the arch with the wall width of 128, degrees 180 and how many thingies is up to you, I go with 16 or 32 usually.

 

So bam, you create it and THEN you scale it back down to 512x512 above the walls and you have your perfect arch. Hammer is funky  with stuff like that so you have to make workarounds to create the perfect arches you want to fit your fence or wall and so on. 

[sevin]

Was taking a look at Militia tonight and I saw this:

I had always assumed this was a model, but it's actually a group of brushes tied to a func_rotating. How is this done? I've always thought Hammer should have some kind of "distribute selection" menu or something, but I don't think it does so I'm really confused as to how this was done.

[jakuza]

Hmmmmm. The LDs at Valve might've used an in-house tool but I believe this could be done in-editor:

a)Use the arch tool to make a 360 degree 16-sided flat donut shape for the blades

b)Rotate each individual brush by some certain amount

c)Connect them with the thin metal pieces also using arch tool

[Klems]

I don't see the problem. You shown us a screen in hammer of an arch. The arch is composed of smaller brushes. It's right here on the screen. That is exactly how it's done. It's not like we have secret tools to do it, it's just a gigantic pain in the ass. You have to lay out triangles around the arch by hand. You can use the vertex and clip tools but these are already explained in numerous tutorials.

You think this is bad, wait until you have to to make an arch on an angle. http://i.imgur.com/bY8eXS7.jpg

Personally I wouldn't have even bothered with the arch tool considering how the texture can be used as a guide already.

EDIT: jeez this topic is old, nevermind that

 

As for the militia fan thing it's a tad more annoying to do.

Then the metal bars can be done with the arch tool.

Keep in mind rotation occur around the center of the object, which is why I had to group both blades. Paste special isn't that helpful either to be honest, it's so annoying to setup right, most of the time it's slower than doing it by hand.

PS: you can click on solid on the top-right to select individual brushes only.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Klems

[Vorontsov]

I realize my "explanation" one year ago was pretty bad. Here's a gif.

http://i.imgur.com/5lFT78o.gifv

Basically if my arch is going to be 90 degree's and 64x64 (arches with the arch tool should preferably be the same dimensions), then I have to start off by making it 128x128 with the size of 8 units (my preferred thickness) and then scale it down to 64x64. Now you have an ongrid arch with the arch tool.

 

There is also another method, it's basically the opposite but it's known atleast for me to provide bad results in some places because it has less room to work with, whereas above method has twice the room to work with and provides better results, you basically just make the arch where you want it (as I did in the gifv), but this time don't upscale it, just let it be 64x64 and then instead in the wall width settings change it to 4 instead of 8. In this method you take away half of the wall width, which is how I got from 8 to 4. I would recommend top method instead, this one is shit in some occasions whereas top one has never failed me yet unless I dun goof'd on something myself which has nothing to do with the method.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Vorontsov

[Klems]

Basically if my arch is going to be 90 degree's and 64x64 (arches with the arch tool should preferably be the same dimensions), then I have to start off by making it 128x128 with the size of 8 units (my preferred thickness) and then scale it down to 64x64. Now you have an ongrid arch with the arch tool.

I would advise against re-scaling an arch, your second method is much better. There is no guarantee the vertex will still be on grid after the scale, especially if you resize to 1/3 or any arbitrary size. Anyway, if you make sure every vertex in on the grid afterwards (with vertex tool) it won't matter how you resized it.

In any case the arch would be a func_detail so it doesn't really matter. /rant

[Vorontsov]

I literally showed you that it's on grid and it has been for a year everytime I make an arch with that method

EDIT: Also I don't see how just because it's a func_detail the brushwork doesn't matter. Keep your brushwork clean people!

Edited January 20, 2016 by Vorontsov
kkk

[jakuza]

Oh. yeah. That makes more sense.