de_chiku

[louie]

de_chiku

currently in: alpha 5

 

WORKSHOP

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=430377667

 

OVERVIEW

 

NOTES

OK, finally back with a new version, and once again you wouldn't even think it's still the same map, but everytime I try to tweak a part of the map another part seems to end up changing with it, and now I've ended up with this. I've really tried to keep gameplay more in mind and focus less on realism and aesthetically pleasing architecture, and the result have made for some architecture that might doesn't look very japanese, but hopefully I'll be able to fix that later on.

Anyways, I'd be very glad to now what you think about this map, so subscribe with the link at the top and give it a test run.

Cheers, Louie

 

ADDITIONAL PICS:

 

 

 

 

OLDER VERSIONS:

 

alpha 1:

OVERVIEW

 

NOTES

Hey everyone, I'm a long time lurker on MapCore and this forum is awesome for new mappers like myself!
Until now I've never had anything that I've wanted to show, but I recently sat down and really tried to create a map,

and here's the result:

 

de_chiku, a defusal map set in a japanese urban district.

I'm not trying to introduce any amazing new concepts, as much as I'm just trying to make a functioning map.
I feel like the overall size is fairly decent although I'm a bit worried about some pretty huge LOS's.

I would love to get some feedback on pretty much anything before I continue tinkering with it, although note that right now it's basically in it's earliest development stage (the map in the workshop link is the first and only compile I've done so far), and zero aesthetic work have been done at this point. I expect the map to change quite a bit before I settle on a lay-out, I also plan on introducing some height difference through out the map.
So if you have some spare time, please subscribe to the workshop link found at the top and have a look a round.

 

ADDITIONAL PICS

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2015 by louie

[Demolitions]

It looks a tad bit too open IMO

[text_fish]

You should really plan in height variations during the earliest stages of layout design, as this will have just as much impact on sight-lines as the basic top-down layout does.

[jackophant]

Welcome to mapcore!

 

As austion says, open streets don't lend themselves well to CSGO gameplay, however you could use a road as a type of mid, and then the rest of the map plays in the built up back streets and side alleys of the area around it.

 

Again, reiterating what text_fish says, "verticality" as I've seen the term used before (as much as I hate it, there isn't a single word I can think of with the same meaning) is very important.

 

Regarding scale, looking at the van you have near the southern bombsite, those vans can hide maybe 4-5 player models shoulder to shoulder and is taller than the player as well. That is very open, and will lead to a heavy sniper biased map. I would be interested to see timings to bombsites and rotations, something you should try to include in the planning as no-one wants to take 30 seconds to rotate to the other bombsite leaving 15 seconds to play with including 5-10s for defusing.

 

With ongoing development it might be easier to revert some of the map to "greybox". It allows you to be more flexible with final theme and is easier to make changes!

 

Good luck

[Squad]

Again, reiterating what text_fish says, "verticality" as I've seen the term used before (as much as I hate it, there isn't a single word I can think of with the same meaning) is very important.

 

 

Height variety?

[jackophant]

 

Again, reiterating what text_fish says, "verticality" as I've seen the term used before (as much as I hate it, there isn't a single word I can think of with the same meaning) is very important.

 

Height variety?

 

I literally meant a single word, a word by itself describing the feature. Height variety would do though I suppose! *derp*

[Vaya]

Make the theme fit the layout rather than the layout fit the theme. Making roads etc to a 'real world' layout doesn't work unless you put props etc on top as a kind of 'overlay' to make the gameplay work - see overpass/chinatown/marquis for examples of how other mappers have done this. All have realistic roads that have had props and brushwork added as an overlay to corral sightlines and player pathing.

 

You want a solid layout with a believable theme rather than a believable layout with a solid theme

[louie]

Thanks for all the solid feedback!
I will sit down over the weekend and try to see if I change the map to maybe have 1 or 2 "big" roads and the change the rest of the map to smaller back alleys, etc.

I have one question though, Is it best if I update the OP when I have finished the next version, or should I simply post a reply with all the updates?

Again huge thanks for all the constructive feedback!

[jackophant]

Thanks for all the solid feedback!

I will sit down over the weekend and try to see if I change the map to maybe have 1 or 2 "big" roads and the change the rest of the map to smaller back alleys, etc.

I have one question though, Is it best if I update the OP when I have finished the next version, or should I simply post a reply with all the updates?

Again huge thanks for all the constructive feedback!

 

Either works. I personally prefer updating the OP as it's the first thing people will see if they're new to the thread and link back to it in a bump post, or just quote the OP in it's new form in spoiler tags

[pjw0]

I was just thinking again about DaveJ's idea about having a main road that takes a 'tour' around the map; I like that you've done that here. Since the design of this map doesn't seem to lend itself to double doors of the type seen in Dust/Dust2/Cbble, that means the road will itself be very open and should probably not be running through the middle of the map as a main route. See if you can find some options for creating cover/chokepoints on the road itself. A depressed underpass or short tunnel going through raised ground might be one option. A bridge going over the road, like a skywalk or pedestrian bridge, which would have strong pylons/stanchions/columns coming very close to the road might be another.

 

There are a lot of Z/S curves in hallways in the map. The corners on these are mostly directly lined up, so once you come past the first corner you can see past the next few corners immediately. The zig-zag pattern of these hallways should usually be deeper so that you actually have to go past each corner to be able to see much further.

 

There is a spot that looks like you can only get onto it by boosting (dumpsters on the B side). This spot gives a big time advantage here, by letting players bypass a pretty long distance to run around either side, and also adds a new height/angle that can't be accessed any other way. This seems like too much to attach to a boost, especially since with VALVe making no-blocking (i.e. no-boosting) very common, this spot will be completely inaccessible in a lot of configurations (much like how Vertigo is gimped by inability to boost up the ladder). It's probably best to keep boosts to either a small time advantage (e.g. superman boost at A on Dust2), or a height/angle advantage, but not both.

 

The timing on the map seems very favorable to Ts, partly because the Ts can get out into somewhat open areas and start picking CTs before they can get to their spots. Ts going straight forward through the connector and looking past the bus shelter to the right seems especially problematic, because they can try to lock down the whole right side of bombsite A about 5 seconds after spawning.

 

For realism of the roads, it would probably be better to get rid of the 90-degree turns (without intersections) and just have the road made up of T-shaped intersections and segments that are either straight or slanted at a slight angle. Having some of the roads running at 75 or 80 degrees instead of 90 everywhere may make the building facades more interesting; the buildings can either be slanted to match the road, or a series of segments that are perpendicular to the rest of the map forming a series of corners.

 

Where you want to put a right-angle in the road along the edge of the map, this can just be a T-shaped intersection with one way running straight out of the map and blocked off. I'm not sure if it's common in Japan, but it's not unusual in the U.S. for a city to decide to close a fully-built section of road to be used only by pedestrians, and just put dragons' teeth (concrete pyramid-shaped tank traps) or yellow pipes or large planters on the road to block vehicles.

 

The inside corners of intersections probably need to be rounded out some (currently the sidewalk runs out to basically a square corner).

 

It's cool to use some car props, but there are some downsides to using/overusing them. Most cars and trucks don't really provide good cover and may even be less useful than something like a sign/advertisement or planter with a thick bush in it. Putting cars directly on the road visually highlights that the road is too narrow for cars. Good car props are hard to find/make, and the props are large/noticeable/identifiable; re-using cars from other maps makes the map look less original/distinctive.

[louie]

Hello fellas, I have a bit of a problem here.

de_chiku_a2 is finished, but for some reason Counter-Strike keeps crashing whenever I attempt to generate a nav file. It has done the same in the past but usually when i load the game back up the nav file has been properly generated and bots work, although this time around they just stand around.

Does anyone have some suggestions on what might cause this? and how I can fix it?

[Vaya]

can you upload the VMF here and I'll have a look at it tonight? It's probably your brushwork.

[Vorontsov]

can you upload the VMF here and I'll have a look at it tonight? It's probably your brushwork.

 

I really like when people do this and sometimes I would love to try and give someone else my project to help me but what is stopping someone from taking the .vmf and keeping it / using it as their own / publishing it etc? Is there some sort of protection against it on Mapcore or is it just based on moral and trust?

[Vaya]

 

can you upload the VMF here and I'll have a look at it tonight? It's probably your brushwork.

 

I really like when people do this and sometimes I would love to try and give someone else my project to help me but what is stopping someone from taking the .vmf and keeping it / using it as their own / publishing it etc? Is there some sort of protection against it on Mapcore or is it just based on moral and trust?

 

not much in the way of protection but you can just decompile most bsps to grab the VMF anyway. I don't see why people would steal creations as it's not like they have anything to gain...

 

If you're an active poster on mapcore I assume you're at least mildly moral about these things

[laminutederire]

can you upload the VMF here and I'll have a look at it tonight? It's probably your brushwork.

I really like when people do this and sometimes I would love to try and give someone else my project to help me but what is stopping someone from taking the .vmf and keeping it / using it as their own / publishing it etc? Is there some sort of protection against it on Mapcore or is it just based on moral and trust? Also it appears that when shady people uses vmf from others with success, they are not from here and they only make night maps and such!