[CSGO] De_Urakka

[Dosentti]

Hello,

I finished play test version of my first map last week. It will be in mapcore play test April 26th. 

De_urakka is bomb mission which has been designed to be competitive map. But I hope it will be good in casual mode too.
The environment of map is farm. Bomb sites are in the barn and around the bell tower. 

I hope you will check it out and share some ideas with me and give me feedback. I have been making this map 1,5 years now and this is fourth version of this map. But since I'm newbie with level designing I would like if you comment what's good and bad and also things I should still think and areas I should improve in map and generally as a level designer.

This map is still incomplete. For example 3D skybox, player clipped stairs, detailed roof edges and environment sounds will come after. But here's the workshop link.
here you can find my blog where is info about the map too.

Here's the layout:

 

 

And Here are the screenshots:

 

 

Thank you for your advices and comments in advance!

EDIT April 24th: added link to my blog.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Dosentti

[Dosentti]

Since I'have gotten no feedback at all I guess the map isn't very good is it? 

Just say that it's at leas ugly.. -.-'

[Lizard]

I will play it today.

[AkatsukiUK]

Heya,

 

Just played your level I couldn't well ignore someone who has put in the hard work.

 

This is a first impressions feedback post (I will do a more detailed post when If I get a bit more time this afternoon): 

 

Appearance:

- Your level is not ugly!

-The outdoor areas are the best parts of your level visually, and it does feel like a farm.

- The indoor lighting needs some work and I would make this your priority first.  

- Take out some of the indoor screenshots you have on your workshop page until the lighting is right. (The last two you have linked above I would remove).

-The overhead walkways you have in the centre of the map I noticed are very thin, I would add a view more units thickness to these. Imagine if you were walking on those in real life, they would bend and bounce so much at the current thickness.

 

As some advice in this area for lighting, perhaps look at a game like Red Dead Redemption. I mention this game because it has some similar farm areas with those large barns that you have. The most effective tool a level designer has with Hammer is the power of the outdoor lights. I noticed your barns/buildings have a lot of windows looking in, but they're not really benefiting from the outside lights that you have. Yes they would have some indoor lights for when it gets dark, but not as many as you have placed. 

 

e.g: you have I think is a room for chickens or for feeding?, around 17 lights in that small area. Never-mind the electricity bill!, you would go blind if you turned them all on 

 

Try this on a bright day at home, open your curtains and then turn on a lamp or indoor light, try to match this effect in your indoor areas.

 

Sadly the industry has created a bit of a monster when it comes to visuals, so it is much harder for level designers to stand out if the visual side is not up to scratch. If players are put off, they will dismiss the rest of your level straight away, even if you had the best game-play ever.  I think what you have here is really good, just needs polishing, which takes time but it will be worth it at the end:)

 

The game-play felt fairly solid, but I need to spend more time on this.

 

p.s Don't be afraid to be a bit mad with making changes. Save your map beforehand and then go wild. If you have been looking at something for as long as you have, you can get attached and a bit stuck mentally to how things currently look.

Edited April 19, 2015 by AkatsukiUK

[Dosentti]

Thanks for your feedback!  That area that needs lighting is actually trying to be for pigs. I went to my childhood neighbour's farm and took some photos from their old piggery. It's not in use anymore but those lamps that come very low above the pigs are used for keeping little piggy's warm. Those other lights I just  overused you got me there  

I got very good advices from some guy on reddit and I a lot to cover.. It opened my eyes and now I got so much work with my map that I should probably cancel my summer job and keep making this map better

Anyways.. thank you!

[Squad]

I went to my childhood neighbour's farm and took some photos from their old piggery. It's not in use anymore but those lamps that come very low above the pigs are used for keeping little piggy's warm.

 

These lamps should have reddish lighting. That's just how they look and it'll make the room a lot more interesting imo.

 

[Dosentti]

I'm pretty sure those lamps are not always red But I can try it.

At least they weren't red in the piggery I have visited.

But I agree that they should be other color than the main lighting

Edited April 20, 2015 by Dosentti

[Drakeee]

Please change that brick paving texture in pic 7

[Deathy]

Since I'have gotten no feedback at all I guess the map isn't very good is it? 

Just say that it's at leas ugly.. -.-'

 

worst reaction ever. Seriously. ^^

I'm not sure why people post their stuff they definitely want to improve on (as you said, the playtest is still coming) in the Finished Work section. Haven't seen this for the first time.

 

The looks are way to sterile, especially in the indoor sections. That wood texture is craving for attention but it has nothing to accompany it's desire. Look at some of the indoors of maps that are official or were in one of the operations. Get a feeling for colors, that work together. You've done it right e.g. in the barn and the brick archways, but the piggery and the office (or house, whatever it's called) just look way off.

 

I had a quick look on the map and it plays well, there are just some areas that have just too much access and/or cover.

 

Bombspot A seems more balanced in this manner, the only thing you should rethink is actually having the bomb plantable in that wooden bell tower. You can only access via duck jump from the front of it, making it really easy to defend from one of the windows in the house (and for that purpose I think you should remove the one in the bathroom/sauna/whatever). Either lower the base or make the access into the tower easier. I like the way you can access that spot as a CT (which is jumping over the fence) but still have a good rotation point over the CT/MID/A Connector thingy. It's just very much to watch to see enemies incoming, it is probably a mess to defend since the Ts can also jump on the house just before the fence from T-side with help of the house. 

Water texture wasn't working for me in the pool btw, not sure if anyone else can confirm. It was just nodraw.

 

Bombsite B and the surrounding barn is freaking huge. You can set up the bomb and go hiding somewhere, there are so many possibilities. Too many in my opinion. Try to break down the bombspot into something more easier with less but more thoughtful cover and areas where you can watch and hide.

The piggery as well is just too big, also having connections between all of the halls in there just feels way to redundant, not to say unnecessary. Again, try to break it down into something more memorable and thoughtful (waypoint-wise).

 

Mid, oh boy! A very heavy mess, a fun one though. And again too many places to shoot from. The entrance leading into the CT Mid is so open and should definitely be refined. I think the upper ways on mid are somewhat useful for rotation between B and A for CTs, but they just offer too many possibilities.

You could go as far as removing the connection between the T-side and the CT-side on the upper level or remove it completely. The mid is definitely not a place to hold, but more of a firefight place, or biased sniper battle of whoever comes first. I liked the little sniper spot from CT side though, you might want to keep that since it gives somewhat of a good position for adjustment when mid gets overrun and you can retreat back into the connector or CT spawn either way.

 

This could definitely be fun to play with still a lot of adjustments, and perhaps you should also consider deathmatch as a possible mode (if it isn't already).

 

Have a nice day and keep up the work!

[Dosentti]

worst reaction ever. Seriously. ^^

I'm not sure why people post their stuff they definitely want to improve on (as you said, the playtest is still coming) in the Finished Work section. Haven't seen this for the first time.

 

 

Well I was getting pretty desperate. Sorry for that.. And I'm new on mapcore so I just checked map release forum and posted as there read that "almost complete" works too.. It maybe should be on another place. 

 

 

The looks are way to sterile, especially in the indoor sections. That wood texture is craving for attention but it has nothing to accompany it's desire. Look at some of the indoors of maps that are official or were in one of the operations. Get a feeling for colors, that work together. You've done it right e.g. in the barn and the brick archways, but the piggery and the office (or house, whatever it's called) just look way off.

 

Are you speaking about the A-house floor? or generally all wooden textures? I have a lot to learn when it comes to colors and what looks good with what.. But that will be the main focus after getting layout to make sense. 

 

 

Water texture wasn't working for me in the pool btw, not sure if anyone else can confirm. It was just nodraw.

 

Mid, oh boy! A very heavy mess, a fun one though. 

I think the water problem is coming from the graphic settings.. Not sure, but it works well with me and most of my friends but at least for now ppl with low graphic settings have said that it doesn't work.. Well.. whatever it is I gotta change the water to some other.

Well the middle is a bit weird still yes.. You should have seen the first versions! 

I was planning to erase sniper nest and change the connector into kind of control room. I would add a  wide window (like in de_nuke under heaven the locker room) and make the door smaller. Also the ladders are clumsy on ct side overpass so I was thinking to switching them to stairs (if they fit). Overpass is going to stay but I'm going to change the place of middle ladders to B-side of overpass.

 

Please change that brick paving texture in pic 7

Yep, it's not probably the best texture to that spot.

Thank you very much for your feedback it's highly appreciated!

Also.. I have a blog where I post when I get something done with the map. If You are interested in "what the heck has he been thinking" I suggest you pay a visit on the blog.

Dosentti's blog

 

Edited April 24, 2015 by Dosentti

[Vaya]

you should ask a mod to move this thread to 3D. this section of the forum is for finished projects.

 

After playtesting this map last night:

 

• Way too many routes/too open. you could close off a couple of the buildings to improve gameplay massively. Not every area of a map should be open and playable! I can help with this if you want.
• Design chokes where the CTs and Ts meet to make the gameplay more predicable. I was getting blindsided most rounds by seemingly random encounters.
• The Theme of the map is muddled. why do you have a swimming pool and a belltower on a farm? Why is 'kill them' written in blood decals on a wall?..
• Random areas added to 'slow' rushes. With proper chokes you won't need this.

[Dosentti]

Yes. I'm gonna try to get in touch with some Mod.

If you have ideas how to "define" those routes, I would gladly hear you thoughts. Help is very much appreciated. Especially the A side of map is problem for me.

leplubodeslapin helped me with light_environment last night so it made the map look a lot better. Thank you!

In old Finnish farms they sometimes had those bell towers but since yesterday's feedback was what it was (0/14 likes) I guess I shouldn't try to do such a things. I should focus more on buildings, areas textures architecture that is familiar to people.

The first mistake for my playtesting was that I had already textured the whole map and I didn't think very much about textures -.-'. 

Today I have tried to make middle area better. Also I have replaced many textures and materials to clarify the theme. I'm going to add more barn, piggery -things and remove those brick, belltower and A-house things.. like pool.. 


One thing I would still want to comment on yesterday's playtest. I'm a rookie, yes and I don't have similar touch with these things as my of you have since you have done this alot more and many of you are professionals. One dude said as a feedback that "I guess not everyone should make maps" (or similar to that). I understand that it's not good but that kind of feedback isn't helping and it's more like offensive than helping. For me.. you can say whatever you want, but I hope Map Core's mapping community will encourage people to mapping and not kick those who are "shittier". I was lucky to have some people there also that stood up for me.

[Vaya]

Just ignore things like that. If you want to improve your designs and map making and are willing to listen to feedback then mapcore is the perfect place for you.

 

Playtests focus (I would say the voting aswell) on layout first and foremost- you should too. Texturing can come after the layout is more solid

 

I'll have another run around the level and post what changes I would make. My goal would be defining the routes better which should lead to more predicable gameplay.

[Vaya]

Okay here is the current routes through the map. This list map be incomplete but it's all the ones I saw last night on my quick 2nd run through.

 

 

here are the changes I'd make for a first pass. (please note this is only personal opinion and I've not tested timings in regards to chokes- this is just in regards to the sightlines and giving the map a more structured layout)

 

 

here's the new paths from this:

 

 

 

 

Let me know what you think

[Dosentti]

Well I can't say I love all of them. But most of them seem pretty good. The route update for piggery - B-long was going to be very different but I think your suggestion might be better. I just have to figure out how am I going to make the environment after that upgrade. I think this is more upgrading than updating

The middle area is under construction atm. I already moved the sludge well to other side of the middle so it doesn't confuse in the middle. Also I'm going to add ladders to both sides of middle so it's easier for players to access overpass.

The connector has already been changed a lot and for now I can't add new route to there as you suggested. But later if this new version isn't good I will try your suggestion. I also can't cut the route from connector to piggery because I think it will make CT rotation very difficult. If they go through CT base it'll take some time and if they go along overpass they will be heard, seen and killed while trying. But I'm not saying it could be possible later if my solution doesn't work.

What I like the most is what you did with A side of the map. It actually makes sense to remove pool and some of the grass area from T-side of A. However I'll probably test it with kiln balcony still. I don't want to remove it at once but maybe later if it seems to be a problem. 

In any case this gave me very much ideas! I'll probably publish new version in two weeks. When I'll get something done I will wake this topic alive. Thank you!