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Oh yeah definitely. The rate that they have been improving their mobile support is VERY fast. If they continue at this rate I can't wait to see what the engine will look like in a year.

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I don't understand the fascination with creating a mobile game with Unreal. It's a unwieldy beast and you won't even get to use the big boy features.

Edited by Taylor

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That's really what I like so much about unity, you only turn on the big boy features if you want them.. By default it's all clean and lightweight.

 

I just converted my game to unity 5, it went surprisingly smooth! The only thing I really need to fix up was a change they made to how the mouse cursor gets hidden, everything else just worked :). Way easier than the change from 3 to 4, which required me to do significant rewrites.

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Holy shit the animator system. I just wanted to play a single animation on a single object. This took me all day to figure out. To get this to work i had to:

 

-create the animation on the object (this part was pretty cool!)

-create an animation state machine (not intuitive at all)

-create an empty animation, set it to default

-drag the created animation into the animation state machine

-set the animation speed of the default animation to 0 so it wouldn't autoplay on startup (WTF)

-attach the state machine to the animated object

-reference the state machine in a script and play the correct animation

 

This is really not intuitive at all, what the hell happened to attaching your animation and just putting play() in a script. I felt really dumb today trying to set up this thing that should be so simple. The state machine is so messy, I have nodes in there that I don't need, and can't delete, they really screwed up on this one :(. I'm probably doing it all wrong anyways, but none of the documentation makes any sense 

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I thought the whole animation system is quite excellent after watching this

 

 

I mean instead of selecting the animations to play in your script, you can just pass parameters and the animator controller will handle the transitioning.

Works for certain situations I guess, but I find it very very powerful

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Hey guys, I'm in the process of reading some documentation and attempting a project on Unity with a programmer friend.

Suggestions for an optimal workflow in building environments?
I don't mean fully arted environments, I just want to build some rooms and work on creating the prototype, see if the ideas we have work.

It was with great surprise after several hours spent in the manual that I understood that there's no brush editor (anymore?). As brushing is still present in UE4, I was expecting this to be easily accessible in Unity 5 as well. Seems too much work to have to learn a modelling tool to do basic level design.

I remember in past versions there was brush building, also improved by plugins... I watched some tutorials for Unity 3-4 then. Do I have to get a plugin to do this sort of thing now? I've read that -ironically- it's possible to block out stuff in UE4 and get it in Unity since they work with .fbx files.

My buddy said to use Blender.
Do you know any other freely accessible tools that would work well with Unity? I wouldn't be displeased in trying UE4 for basic level building, as it's like learning two tools at once... just seems a bit ridiculous and I think to understand the environment would be one big mesh non editable in Unity other than scale.

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I don't understand the fascination with creating a mobile game with Unreal. It's a unwieldy beast and you won't even get to use the big boy features.

 

That's really what I like so much about unity, you only turn on the big boy features if you want them.. By default it's all clean and lightweight.

 

I just converted my game to unity 5, it went surprisingly smooth! The only thing I really need to fix up was a change they made to how the mouse cursor gets hidden, everything else just worked :). Way easier than the change from 3 to 4, which required me to do significant rewrites.

Using unreal for mobile would be for the blueprints and much better and more logical codebase. Unreal has such amazing clean and functional bones. Unity on the other hand, from a programmers perspective is a mess. Of course if you don't use either of those things much (say you prefer playmaker and barely do any coding in your unity project) then maybe Unreal isn't a whole lot better.

Unity seems to basically collapse into itself once you scale up beyond simple mobile games. You can certainly get it working but the amount of work it takes from the engineers to get those features up makes it not worth it. 

I don't fault them for not moving away from the Novell mono license since Xamarin's is too costly but I can't help but wonder how much better unity would have been if they didn't have to spend so many resources just hacking shit on to it to keep it running via Mono 2.0.

I wouldn't call default Unity "clean and lightweight" though. I'd call it the opposite. Haxeflixe or Corona I would say fit that criteria more closely.

 

Have you tried ProBuilder? I always hear people talking about it:

http://www.sixbysevenstudio.com/wp-flexible/project/probuilder-for-unity-3d/

 

Holy shit probuilder is amazing. Every unity project I work on or start has to have this installed. It makes prototyping so much better.

 

 

Edited by AlexM

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Have you tried ProBuilder? I always hear people talking about it:

http://www.sixbysevenstudio.com/wp-flexible/project/probuilder-for-unity-3d/

 

Oh that what I was thinking of! Thanks for the link, I thought it was pay only, I see they have a free version. I'm definitely trying it to see what happens.

 Unity seems to basically collapse into itself once you scale up beyond simple mobile games. You can certainly get it working but the amount of work it takes from the engineers to get those features  up makes it not worth it.

Mmh, they are using it for a bit more than that though now... or you mean proper AAA caliber games? Stuff like Republique or any other reel-worthy project is not big enough to fall into the description?
Just curious ;)

~

Went to the asset store to download ProBuilder and thought to download the Tanks demo for curiosity... tells me I need v.5.2, but if I try the update command says I'm up to date?? While on the website can download the installer for 5.2 :?

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^^ Basically anything that requires a major change to one of their core systems. Unfortunately I have to be vague because these are commercial projects I've been involved in. I wish I could say more. 

I guess you could say AA-AAA games? It's kind of hard to for me to know what those are these days :)

Let me put it this way. If you were trying to make a graphically high fidelity game that was something fairly safe that Unity was designed for like a single player third person game then you shouldn't have too many problems. Unity is just very rigid in it's program structure in a way that makes changing it potentially more difficult than writing something from scratch. 

Edited by AlexM

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Think I understand what you mean. Guess every engine has weaknesses and strengths… 

What I don't like here is the concept that something like ProBuilder, that conceptually is a plugin, it's a component in a specific project?? Always thought this sort of "plugin" would become available and part of the native UI like it happens in PS. Seems really stupid having to add it to every project (although I know you can object that for other projects you might not need it).

Guess that with Unity 6 they'll overhaul the UI as right now seems quite old?

As soon as I'm finished shopping and I'm back home I'll try building some rooms.

Edited by blackdog

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Functionally probuilder almost works like a plugin. It has it's own menu bars etc. I guess maybe they don't fit right into the UI because of an engine limitation? I'm not sure actually. 

With the UI overhaul, they are keeping the immediate mode GUI though right? That's actually one of my favorite things about Unity. Immediate mode GUI's are amazing for writing debug menus and logging systems. People didn't give Unity's old UI enough credit for that kind of stuff.

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Using unreal for mobile would be for the blueprints and much better and more logical codebase. Unreal has such amazing clean and functional bones. Unity on the other hand, from a programmers perspective is a mess. Of course if you don't use either of those things much (say you prefer playmaker and barely do any coding in your unity project) then maybe Unreal isn't a whole lot better.

Unity seems to basically collapse into itself once you scale up beyond simple mobile games. You can certainly get it working but the amount of work it takes from the engineers to get those features up makes it not worth it. 

I don't fault them for not moving away from the Novell mono license since Xamarin's is too costly but I can't help but wonder how much better unity would have been if they didn't have to spend so many resources just hacking shit on to it to keep it running via Mono 2.0.

I wouldn't call default Unity "clean and lightweight" though. I'd call it the opposite. Haxeflixe or Corona I would say fit that criteria more closely.

 
 

Holy shit probuilder is amazing. Every unity project I work on or start has to have this installed. It makes prototyping so much better.

 

 

I don't use playmaker for my projects, I script everything. I'm curious as to what you run into trouble with with unity? I don't really consider myself an engineer so I maybe look at things from a different perspective. So far I've been able to put together whatever I could think of without too much trouble :). I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes though.. the mono stuff you're talking about doesn't seem to affect my stuff :p.

with clean and lightweight I mean the editor layout and the whole simplicity of everything being gameobjects that you attach scripts and components to. You only make it as complex as you want it to be.

I won't deny that unity has problems though... I think it's definitely still a "small game" type of engine. They need to really figure out their lighting system if they want to play along visually with other "big game" engines. Their implementation of enlighten is just really painful to use, and imo overkill for most games. Their editor is also not ideal for building large complex environments with lots of objects. If either of those were my priority, I would for sure jump on to unreal.

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I don't use playmaker for my projects, I script everything. I'm curious as to what you run into trouble with with unity? I don't really consider myself an engineer so I maybe look at things from a different perspective. So far I've been able to put together whatever I could think of without too much trouble :). I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes though.. the mono stuff you're talking about doesn't seem to affect my stuff :p.

with clean and lightweight I mean the editor layout and the whole simplicity of everything being gameobjects that you attach scripts and components to. You only make it as complex as you want it to be.

I won't deny that unity has problems though... I think it's definitely still a "small game" type of engine. They need to really figure out their lighting system if they want to play along visually with other "big game" engines. Their implementation of enlighten is just really painful to use, and imo overkill for most games. Their editor is also not ideal for building large complex environments with lots of objects. If either of those were my priority, I would for sure jump on to unreal.

Oh I see, by clean and lightweight I suppose it's quite relative. Something like corona is just lua bindings to functions. Being lua it doesn't even have a concept of objects or components but being lua you can implement a rudimentary system in about 10-15 lines of code. I see your point though, conceptually it's like a blank pallet that you add components too. 

A quick list of issues I've run into with unity involve update order, non-standard c#, non-idiomatic c#, integrating external libraries, pulling out certain low level systems and keeping teams of developers synchronized. Scaling for teams also can be a real killer. Although admittedly Unreal has had a lot of growing pains scaling for teams as well (interestingly enough this seems to be something private engines have always done better). 

I would agree it's a small game engine and I'm not trying to discourage its use for that in any regard. I am however making the argument that these days Unreal is also a good choice for small games. It's also extremely lightweight out the box. In fact a raw project clocks in at 19MB last I checked. IIRC a lot of that is icons and stuff that don't get packaged either. Not to mention the modern c++ used in unreal is very different from what most people expect. It's close to c#.

 

EDIT: Sorry I was running late for work and wrote this quick. One addendum, while unreal has a very modern C++ which is very different from typical c++ (you barely need to use pointers) it does suffer from C++'s garbage build process. They do their best to hide this from you and they do a stellar job but when something goes wrong it can be hard to debug unless you are a c++ programmer. This is why they recommend blueprints which are actually insanely powerful (they bind directly to c++ functions). I don't agree with the blueprint first method of development but I can understand the rationale for smaller games.

Edited by AlexM

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