De_Summer [WIP]

[Vaya]

Been working on this on and off since the summer (hence the name). The map is located inside of a business park with a companies servers/infrastructure being the target.

 

 

Overview

 

Tspawn

 

 

 

Ct spawn

 

 

Bombsite A (sever room with surrounding office space)

 

 

Long path to B (more cover may be required)

 

 

B site (Power generator)

 

 

T side

 

Current Challenges

 

- Map may be overly simple at present

- Layout Needs to be reviewed in terms of Chokes and Spawn areas

- Lighting that doesn't look like the map is located on the surface of the sun

- Radar's Y axis is screwed (misaligned both top and bottom)

- Making map look good. Currently looks like duploland

- repeating textures make my eyes bleed.

- Models need to be created for server racking. I've never done modelling

- Find a better map name

 

Current Risks

 

- Hammer breaks my map when I add a 3d skybox (most common issue for me)

- I find a map-breaking design issue and give up

 

 

Hoping to get a WIP workshop link up soon so I can get some feedback before moving onto playtests.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vaya

[Void]

Hello!, Just looking at some of these pictures it seems that at this point, your map is super wide open with no real cover. Also, have you done any choke point timing yet? 

[Vaya]

Yeah I'm looking at cover just now. I'm thinking some planters to break up the largest areas.

The timing thing. No...How would I go about that? soloing with a stopwatch? Do the timings need to be similar to be effective/good?

[Void]

Yeah I'm looking at cover just now. I'm thinking some planters to break up the largest areas.

The timing thing. No...How would I go about that? soloing with a stopwatch? Do the timings need to be similar to be effective/good?

 

OK, so the first thing you need to know about designing levels for CSGO is that timing is absolutely critical to get down. The time it takes CTs to get to either site, where they physically are and what they can see at the 10s chokepoint mark. Thing like how long it takes them to get in position to watch mid, how long it takes them to rotate from site to mid, and from site to site. Same goes for the T side. 

 

You have to factor in timing because it also plays a big role in how you design other parts of the map and what advantages you give to the attacking/defending teams. 

 

You can get the timing down on your map in a number of ways, either via triggers and a little scripting, or by standing in the various positions you want to get the timing from and looking at the game clock, or by setting up spawns at those positions and restarting the match every time you reach the destination. You could also do it with friends/volunteers. I personally prefer not to use a physical stopwatch because I think it's too distracting if I'm trying to make sure that the absolute most efficient route isn't 200ms too fast or slow. 

 

Another way of getting the timing down is by looking at the fastest player speed: The player can cover 256 units/second with their knife out. You can do your initial blocking based on on that number p easily. 

[Vaya]

T timings are pretty high just now ( about 20s to each site) per site compared to CT which is 10 seconds (15 seconds between site rotation) .

 

Going to move the T spawn and adjust the overall length of the map (X axis)

Cheers Void

 

[Void]

T timings are pretty high just now ( about 20s to each site) per site compared to CT which is 10 seconds (15 seconds between site rotation) .

 

Going to move the T spawn and adjust the overall length of the map (X axis)

Cheers Void

 

Just making sure I was clear about one thing: It should take a CT 10 seconds while rushing to meet a rushing T at the chokepoint of a bombsite. So look at Dust II for example: 

 

CT's can set up to watch either B tunnel or A Long in about 7-8 seconds. If they choose to be aggressive and push, or challenge a T entering the site, that happens at 10s.  

 

The 15s rotation between sites seems good!

[Vaya]

Hmm Ok. 

 

I'm going to try using the 'bot_show_battlefront' command (some gave me this when I asked on reddit about documented rush times for official maps) as this show me the current chokes on the map and I can hopefully amend the map size to fix the timings from there.

 

http://csgo.99damage.de/de/statics/rushtimings here's the offical map rush times btw. I'm surprised maps MASSIVE maps like Cbbl are still relatively low. How I've managed to make a longer rush than cbble I'll never know- that's a feat in itself

[Void]

Hmm Ok. 

 

I'm going to try using the 'bot_show_battlefront' command (some gave me this when I asked on reddit about documented rush times for official maps) as this show me the current chokes on the map and I can hopefully amend the map size to fix the timings from there.

 

http://csgo.99damage.de/de/statics/rushtimings here's the offical map rush times btw. I'm surprised maps MASSIVE maps like Cbbl are still relatively low. How I've managed to make a longer rush than cbble I'll never know- that's a feat in itself

Nice resource! I am a little skeptical about it taking about 10 seconds for Ts to get into the middle of tunnel at B on dust2, would have figured them crossing the tunnel same as CT's at roughly 9s. Their timing of Ddoors does seem more accurate though. I will def keep this in mind though, thanks!

[Vaya]

The potential spawn area for T side is probably 3 seconds big in itself. I guess the accuracy of the timings depends if they used the same spot each time.

[Vaya]

bot_show_battlefront is pretty damn cool.

 

 

The areas marked in red are my current 'natural' chokes (if two bots ran head first at each other from the different spawns where would they meet) Hoping these don't change too much when I resize the map and redo T spawn because I like the current positions of these. Spent last night adding cover in these areas.

 

PS - it KILLS framerates

Edited November 11, 2014 by Vaya

[Void]

I assume you're setting the bot difficulty to expert, because even on expert, the CSGO bots are notoriously stupid. They never run with their knife out for example, which is a fairly major issue when trying to use bots for chokepoint testing. Unless I'm wrong and they do on expert?

 

One thing that's a little frustrating with CSGO vs CSS is that it feels like the AI is far worse.   

[catfood]

This may sound a bit strange but instead of using bots try playing a match against yourself. Run towards a bombsite as terrorist and keep an eye on the timer. Then do the same as counter-terrorist then try to find out where you would see the terrorist the first time. Build your chokepoint battle area around that spot. When you have the most basic choke point/layout go play it with friends and do the same thing. the map is probably going to feel flat and blend because you wont have cover etc but I think this gives a good first impression of the map and also gives a good feel of where the cover etc should be. hope this helps a bit.

[TheOnLY]

Bots do run with their knife out but only until the time the fist encounter is possible. All bots switch to weapons after that time no matter where they are.

Bots are still not good for testing that  bcause they avoid ridiculous big areas around obstacles

Edited November 11, 2014 by TheOnLY

[Vaya]

That command is designed for mapmaking. I'm sure valve will have set up it up using the max possible speed.

 

Here's the same process ran on dust2:

 

 

That said- I will still be doing it the standard way you're all suggesting because I'd like to be doing it right, The more thought I put into the basics the better. (although I really wish there was a command for showing all lines of sight

 

My current plan involves moving the T spawn which might dramatically change the meeting points.

[Gooby]

 

Yeah I'm looking at cover just now. I'm thinking some planters to break up the largest areas.

The timing thing. No...How would I go about that? soloing with a stopwatch? Do the timings need to be similar to be effective/good?

 

OK, so the first thing you need to know about designing levels for CSGO is that timing is absolutely critical to get down. The time it takes CTs to get to either site, where they physically are and what they can see at the 10s chokepoint mark. Thing like how long it takes them to get in position to watch mid, how long it takes them to rotate from site to mid, and from site to site. Same goes for the T side. 

 

You have to factor in timing because it also plays a big role in how you design other parts of the map and what advantages you give to the attacking/defending teams. 

 

You can get the timing down on your map in a number of ways, either via triggers and a little scripting, or by standing in the various positions you want to get the timing from and looking at the game clock, or by setting up spawns at those positions and restarting the match every time you reach the destination. You could also do it with friends/volunteers. I personally prefer not to use a physical stopwatch because I think it's too distracting if I'm trying to make sure that the absolute most efficient route isn't 200ms too fast or slow. 

 

Another way of getting the timing down is by looking at the fastest player speed: The player can cover 256 units/second with their knife out. You can do your initial blocking based on on that number p easily. 

 

isn't it 250?