What I'm Working On

[FMPONE]

 

Some people were a bit critical of Subzero's textures, so I spent a couple days improving them.

I also updated my website with some current screenshots of the map.

Last but not least, the Panorama radar. Really think these illustrate the differences between maps in a great way, think they're extremely cool. In a game like Counter-Strike, where elevation makes a huge difference, it's really important that we can now make that clearer to players before they play the level.

 

[-HP-]

Seems much cleaner now, a lot less "grungy" look to it, for sure! I love it.

[NikiOo]

Still missing half T spawn 

[Radix]

1. Player models are missing! -> Walking errors atm

2. Do we have a template for the new radar background somewhere? Or did you make it yourself?

[FMPONE]

Another day, another update. This time a major gameplay update. Hoping to ship it ASAP.

 

In changing Sub-Zero's layout, I considered several issues:

Problem 1) Sub-Zero's overview looked too much like Cache's overview. While the maps play very differently, Cache is my next/current project, so I don't want them seeming similiar at all.

Problem 2) I don't want to do another "standard" 3-lane map.

Problem 3) Rotating through A con was a straight-shot corridor, meaning players had no interesting way to show their personality or flair.

Problem 4) Sub-Zero was rapidly becoming CT sided. Terrorists didn't have enough strategic options without capturing mid.

Problem 5) Frames tended to be low on the A bombsite.

The solution to these issues: a compact vent system with 3 entrances. I believe this will make Sub-Zero a more unpredictable and unique experience, because:

Benefit 1) Sub-Zero's A site is now completely different from anything else in the game.

Benefit 2) Mid control is now optional for Terrorists and not mandatory like before (Terrorists now have _three_ entrances onto the A bombsite, none of which involve mid.) This is a critical difference between Sub-Zero and almost any map you can think of (Cache, Mirage, Inferno, Dust2, Santorini, Season, etc).

Benefit 3) Players now have choices for long-range, medium-range, and close-range engagements from the vents in order to use different guns/move around in different ways/generally express themselves.

Benefit 4) Both teams now have additional movement options: players can bypass mid entirely, pinch mid from the vents, throw distractions from the vents, execute only from the vents, etc etc.

Benefit 5) Performance will improve because much more visibility is now being blocked.

Also thanks to the Source Engine discord guys, for helping me workshop the visuals in this room, which has been a trouble spot for the map.

[blackdog]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:06 AM, FMPONE said:

Last but not least, the Panorama radar. Really think these illustrate the differences between maps in a great way, think they're extremely cool. In a game like Counter-Strike, where elevation makes a huge difference, it's really important that we can now make that clearer to players before they play the level.

Well first of all grats for keeping improving the map. I haven't played it on servers, but do look cleaner now and I think for the better, it was nice the feeling of throwback to 1.6 in terms of grungy looks, but I think you are still capturing it, improving the visuals.
I will most certainly have a run around the updated version because is not very clear to me what you have explained in terms of layout, by that I mean that it feels like if T decide to attack A, they have to commit a lot to it, or that there's too many ways in. (I'm sure is not that way tho ;))

I'm quoting this bit because I do like the new radar in terms of aesthetics, but I'm still not sold completely on the whole thing. What I highlighted: that is true, but honestly I don't think the overview map gives a great idea. It just tells me in a certain area two level overlap... I think is pretty much like 3kilks was saying in his video, you still have to rely on your in-game experience to understand what it means for those areas to be stacked.

The other reason I'm not completely sold is the colour coding; I do like the heightmap idea, but I find the presentation inconsistent between maps: one overview like Inferno/Cache feel much darker of say Dust2; is like if somehow the colour coding is absolute, I'm talking like "this is the ideal sea level and this map is X height in our world, this other is higher/lower". How is Library grey in Inferno when it feels it is only 3 steps (32 units or so) higher than basic floor level.

[FMPONE]

4 hours ago, blackdog said:

Well first of all grats for keeping improving the map. I haven't played it on servers, but do look cleaner now and I think for the better, it was nice the feeling of throwback to 1.6 in terms of grungy looks, but I think you are still capturing it, improving the visuals.
I will most certainly have a run around the updated version because is not very clear to me what you have explained in terms of layout, by that I mean that it feels like if T decide to attack A, they have to commit a lot to it, or that there's too many ways in. (I'm sure is not that way tho ;))

Yes, it's really interesting because to go A you either go A main, or you drop down into vents and commit to a drop into sand bags. Or you drop down pit and commit to a rush up pit. But that means there are two areas on A where Terrorists can potentially bite off more than they can chew, and end up in a 1vX scenario that they have to fight their way out of. Most often this means that they get hunted down in these really interesting little duel scenarios. It's pretty fun to watch.

4 hours ago, blackdog said:

The other reason I'm not completely sold is the colour coding; I do like the heightmap idea, but I find the presentation inconsistent between maps: one overview like Inferno/Cache feel much darker of say Dust2; is like if somehow the colour coding is absolute, I'm talking like "this is the ideal sea level and this map is X height in our world, this other is higher/lower". How is Library grey in Inferno when it feels it is only 3 steps (32 units or so) higher than basic floor level.

I think that's probably just a consequence of it being a somewhat new idea, and consistency while nice doesn't have to be that rigid.

[Squad]

17 hours ago, blackdog said:

How is Library grey in Inferno when it feels it is only 3 steps (32 units or so) higher than basic floor level.

I thought that's the color for interior areas?

Great work, FMPONE! It's also nice to read about your thoughts behind the layout changes.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Squad

[blackdog]

3 hours ago, Squad said:

I thought that's the color for interior areas?

As reported here, no.

16 hours ago, FMPONE said:

I think that's probably just a consequence of it being a somewhat new idea, and consistency while nice doesn't have to be that rigid.

I wonder if it is based on actual "Hammer elevation", using the vertical midplane as a reference point.
Anyway,despite not fully convinced, I haven't had any problems playing since the update so at least is not detrimental.

[FMPONE]

So, the last layout change to DE_SUBZERO: a boost and trick jump into Hut Glass. Hoping to ship it ASAP.

 

Previously, attacks on B could become stagnant and repetitive, because Terrorists only had one very long route into the B site. This detracted from the map in a few ways:

Problem 1) Sub-Zero's Hut too closely mirrored Cache's B "Sunroom" (at least on radar), as another non-movement, utility area.

Problem 2) Terrorists were forced to use smoke grenades on the long angle into the site -- no matter their economy -- because of CT advantage at long-ranges (USP, Awp, etc). If Terrorists threw that smoke, CTs had a clearly telegraphed signal about likely hits to the B site.

Problem 3) Hut Glass, a unique feature of the map, was underutilized. Instead, most of the action centered around the long angle before Terrorists enter Hut.

Problem 4) Hut Door was underitilzed, because Hut Window was much closer to the action.

Problem 5) Players would often bounce nades back at themselves while trying to throw grenades through Hut Glass.

Now, Terrorist attack options have been further opened up, making their tactics very difficult for CTs to predict:

Benefit 1) The Terrorist "line of scrimmage" connects to every part of the CT "line of scrimmage", meaning that the entire length of Sub-Zero offers interesting, interconnected, useable space.

Benefit 2) Terrorists can now attack B at any stage of a round: by breaking Hut Glass early in a round to deny CTs a sound queu later on, by boosting through Glass right away, by sending a lurker to trick-jump into Glass in order to confuse the defense; or by focusing on the traditional long angle or mid rushes with far less pressure.

The bottom line: CTs can no longer assume that Hut is safe territory, they must account for Hut Glass aggression.

Benefit 3) Hut will see much more action. Combined with the changes over at the A site, this means Terrorists have 6! different movement options across the map. These movement options contain a great deal of variety: boosting through Hut Glass, battling for control of B main, peeking mid from above or below, dropping down vents into connector or into the A site, pushing A main past the pillars at Radio, or dropping down A pit.

(To compensate, Sub-Zero also encourages unprecendented CT aggression, thanks to favorable CT timings on B, boosts at A vent and pit, a lot of cover at A long Radio, and a fair gunfight at Mid.)

Benefit 4) Hut Door will see increased action. Now far easier to reach, Terrorists are encouraged to use Door for info gathering, crossing into site, or simply to dance around in Hut.

Benefit 5) Throwing grenades into Hut is now simple and meaningfully strategic.

Conclusion

With this change, and the changes at A, I'm now satisfied that Sub-Zero is a true "original." Beyond its unique theme and custom assets, beyond the signature Arctic Avenger player models, Sub-Zero features a number of brand new angles and gameplay quirks. From its interesting bombsites, verticality and elevation changes, consequential boosts, 2 one-way committal spots, and multiple trick jumps... there's quite a lot of "new" and "weird" packed into an easy to learn, competitive Counter-Strike package. And, unlike most Counter-Strike maps, mid-control is now an entirely _optional_ part of Terrorist strategy.

(It's done.)

 

[MrMutton]

Quote

And, unlike most Counter-Strike maps, mid-control is now an entirely _optional_ part of Terrorist strategy.

Interesting point. Of the maps that have a true mid in the rotation, (dust, inferno, mirage, cache) all require some kind of mid presence from the T's to take the site on a consistent basis.

With that in mind, giving the T side that luxury will require aggressive map control takes from the CT side. If the T's continually give mid to CT, that opens the door to quick rotations. Giving the T side options on the site take also inherently gives the CT's those options on the retake.  

The map has come a far way from the grey box that I once downloaded the day of release, and I look forward to playing some more games on Faceit and hopefully in the next operation.

[Dr.ParadoX]

The detail and the beauty of your map is amazing!

[Radix]

Managed to play a few matches on subzero. It's a pretty crazy map. I like it.

Some little findings:

- small gap here:

- another one:

- got stuck here once. Maybe tweak clipping there?

Edited November 24, 2018 by Radix

[FMPONE]

1 hour ago, Radix said:

Managed to play a few matches on subzero. It's a pretty crazy map. I like it.

Some little findings:

- small gap here:

- another one:

- got stuck here once. Maybe tweak clipping there?

Thanks for pointing these out! Bouncing smoothly off this wall isn’t ideal IMO because sometimes when you peek an angle you want to tuck into it rather than glide off smoothly. Not ideal for every situation but I think it’s better to tuck here than to slide off unintentionally into mid

[Radix]

8 hours ago, FMPONE said:

Thanks for pointing these out! Bouncing smoothly off this wall isn’t ideal IMO because sometimes when you peek an angle you want to tuck into it rather than glide off smoothly. Not ideal for every situation but I think it’s better to tuck here than to slide off unintentionally into mid

Yeah, that's probably right. You can only get stuck there when moving out (to the left while looking to T side, with your back to the railing), but not when moving back (right). So this won't kill you. Better leave it like it is now.