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FMPONE

What I'm Working On, 2014-Forever

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yeah but remember that Source is very clunky, so that was a technical restriction originally, and CS gameplay is not a straightforward TDM that needs super-connected maps, null rotations (because you want to be firing 5 secs after spawning) etc. Also in the past mappers, wanted to control the use of grenades, and/or player weren't bothered by the invisible walls so there wasn't the need of openess as much as now.Not sure the experience is very comparable. That being said, some principles should/could be taken into account and attempt made at achieving the feeling.

True, source sucks, but I think you are misinformed about what CoD gameplay was before. It was just like cs, but called search and destroy. The maps were built for that gamemode. The true reason to why maps are like they are now is probably because of what you said, source limitations, but also because it is the easy way to make maps, it is very easy to get an idea on how the map will be played, control rotation times, timings etc. I like it, but more open maps would be welcomed. 

Edited by Bodd Jonar

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A really good talk about Negative space that I actually had the chance to see in person.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020169/The-Importance-of-Nothing-Using

This is really really interesting. Can't wait to look into that one.

@FMPONE rotate through cafe shouldn't be a crouchjump A->B. New players (silver/nova ranks) may struggle doing it consistently and it's a main route.

Yup, that's a great point.

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Im going to go on a limb and say there was confusion between dead space and negative space.

how would you count dead space though?  As a lay man, I would say dead space is unnecessary areas of map which don't add to game play.

Negative space would be the black patches on a radar that the lower a number of, the less interconnectivity of said map which could be indicative of a more simple layout.

And coming from an art background, if we were to draw something's negative space, say a person, those areas would be the shape created by having your hand on your hip.

Edited by jackophant

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take a look at the gdc talk. dead space is sometimes good for the story telling of a space. though there may not be many encounters in them, they act as timing buffers and mental down time. 

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Ignoring the performance issues, I would think that the 'standard' use of negative space is necessary for a few reasons. Smokes have their strategic strength because of the ability to block off specific paths, which wouldn't really be possible in a more open area. As well, the relative strength of scoped weapons at range make it so that these weapons have too much strength and way too many long angles that other weapons wouldn't be able to compete.

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Didn't know where to put this, but when going through the tunnels to bombsite B on Santorini, one guy can block the entire hall due the hallway being angled and the player boundary box not being angled (classic Source).

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This can cause quite the frustation sometimes when you are two or more people inside those tunnels.

Fun map though, even though I think bombsite A is kinda hard to hold due to the guy holding mid not being able to cover for the terrorists coming to A through mid connector.

The 10-ish times I've played it now in MM (@ global/supreme level) it seems like 3 guys A, 1 mid and 1 B is the best CT tactic. One A can push lower fast and see if he spots anyone, if not he can rush through and flank them. The other guy A can push or hold connector to mid from A.

 

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This smoke is no longer possible, as it hits the diagonal wall

https://youtu.be/g9WfIXWgU5s?t=79

Did you add anything here? https://gyazo.com/1f7aadbf83ff7d3411a9cf7e21802246 Because somehow it always bounces on that thing now. 

Ok found another way to throw the smoke, but from on top of the crate. But I noticed that jumping up on the crate is pretty messed up, your character are forced into a crouch position, it can't stand up because of the fence above it. 

Edited by Bodd Jonar

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