[CS:GO] Rails

[Deh0lise]

Deh0, maybe you can post 2d flats here and we can help critique?

No problem. Some have more work than others, which are based mostly on a photo (v.g snow):

[FMPONE]

I'll explain some of my thoughts on this tomorrow. I don't think you need to do anything radically different, but I do think you need to settle into some different thought processes about your level. For instance, you sort of dismiss the importance of the theme by saying like you could throw in some Russian trainstation stuff. As a player, those thematic decisions are what really interest me in a map.

 

Look at Marquis, Workout, Chinatown, etc etc etc. Because the maps pick an idea which is function of the level + geographic association, players automatically know certain things about the level and have certain ideas about what they expect to see. If you show them these things, it's exciting and interesting. So I think if you sort of just say "oh it's a Russian trainstation", you miss the point. Think about a bit more deeply. You have a general look for the map which is pleasant but have you examined interesting ways to enhance this with a real world location or functional idea? Russian trainstation starts to look a bit lazy then (not trying to beat you down with this), especially when the game already has one.

 

I would say what about somewhere in France based on the mood of your map, it reminds me of film noir stuff. Anyway, I'd like to run around with some screenshots and tell you what I think, I've seen you put a lot of work into this map over the months and I think it can improve if you think about things in a way that the other maps have, it'd be no problem. But it might require that deeper thought about things, and an organized approach

 

Your textures for instance are nice, but they don't remind me of any specific geographic place. Even if the textures were going to be noisy or whatever, at least they could have that going for them. Anyway like I say, more soon. and btw, even if you don't decide to make changes to Rails, it might help with future projects. I know going back to old work can be tricky, sometimes it's better to learn a lesson than to sit around with old work before you learned the lessons in the first place

[Deh0lise]

 

Not saying theme is not important, just that it really wasn't my focus when I started it, the public target didn't really mind it (you probably know already some old players and their mindset) and I didn't have the tools to make it unique back then (i.e 3d package) besides texture work (I used to extend a current theme). In fact, the map I'm working on has that issue solved from the start, it's something I'm aware of despite I didn't fix with rails.

 

I agree that adding landmarks that remind of real locations can increase the desirability of the map by fulfilling fantasies and adding a bit of storytelling within the map itself (not just the description). That's something I could work on with Rails, I just didn't see myself remaking the whole set of textures plain/washed out following the current trend and revising the whole theme again.

 

I'm open to suggestions and I don't discard working more time on the map. I've updated it not long ago and I'll probably do it again (I've fixed stuff in hammer already) not just for gameplay reasons but to implement some suggestions like yours, that's fine. I'll totally check your insights tomorrow and think about it.

 

Thanks for the time & insights

Edited February 21, 2015 by Deh0lise

[Vaya]

I would recommend a 'real world location' backdrop too, if just because you want to get in an operation.

 

Think about how valve has marketed each operation and parts of the game itself are built up- they play on the 'global' idea of global offensive quite a lot with tours of duty etc. I would say the majority of the maps featured so far have had a strong placement in a certain country or region.

[FMPONE]

I put together that album of feedback for you, as promised. I hope you can get into an Operation with this but it will take some polish

 

http://imgur.com/JaStsw7,6qqxYNW,QFKsP6r,lXtS9Nn,8ApXwGP,5BEco8o,3oilYGT,f93aKJE,1JsjWjF,Sh5Z0Vg,dfRRJcu,2f6LEud,rZdVdoS,cZuaU5R,Aw3cFOy,onrHjMG,6QayY6v,lpiu9n5,PwtM4mW,F15kb1O,HchpEMf,syKrnIG,bHUgylr,eu08mR7,Lns22BW,lHzZica,dfpd3Fc,beCgX1o,BIa7vNT#0

 

also this (just an idea for Detroit theme)

 

[Deh0lise]

I put together that album of feedback for you, as promised. I hope you can get into an Operation with this but it will take some polish

 

http://imgur.com/JaStsw7,6qqxYNW,QFKsP6r,lXtS9Nn,8ApXwGP,5BEco8o,3oilYGT,f93aKJE,1JsjWjF,Sh5Z0Vg,dfRRJcu,2f6LEud,rZdVdoS,cZuaU5R,Aw3cFOy,onrHjMG,6QayY6v,lpiu9n5,PwtM4mW,F15kb1O,HchpEMf,syKrnIG,bHUgylr,eu08mR7,Lns22BW,lHzZica,dfpd3Fc,beCgX1o,BIa7vNT#0

 

also this (just an idea for Detroit theme)

 

That's a LOT of good feedback! gotta work.

 

Thanks ^^

[Vaya]

I think placing it on the edge of  montreal would be pretty cool. There's a few derelict train yards in the area too I believe.

 

http://www.chrishenschel.com/2013/05/back-streets/

 

Lots of room for intresting signage in both french and english etc too.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Vaya

[catfood]

 

I pooped:

I tried to do some "concept art" over one of your screenshots. I seriously hope you don't take it the wrong way

 

It's ok catfood, I appreciate it. I got used to how it looked but you're right, it needs something else. I thought about adding some letters over the upper concrete beam as I used the light just to guide players view above because of CTs.

-I like the left vents with some particles/envsmoke, it's a good idea I might implement.

-The box below is something I didn't want to add in order not to give too many hints about going above the wood plank thus making smart Ts work as a team boosting and having an advantage (just like the old dark crate in d2 circular stairs).

-I'm not adding the tree as I don't want any prop on the ground over there and might look strange from another spot if it is over the roof, but something there might prove useful for the composition.

-The A sign might be useful, also a B sign over the far metal door, but I didn't want to encourage Ts to go middle aggressively, specially the first time they play the map, getting through mid is not as common as it is in cbble for example. Middle routes are secondary, mostly for support.

-Cables and ac are nice, and adding some colors with stripes or pipes might be fine too, I might try it.

-The window's frame is something I agree and I have already tried with brushes but was badly lit, I should probably have to make a model to make it look pretty.

 

Thanks

 

you're welcome. i have to be honest i havent played the map yet just responding on your visuals (screenshots) so the tree and the A sign are probably misplaced when playing the map but the area-skybox felt fertile so i thought bringing back more foliage into the map would be nice for colors, breaking geometry and tilling.

im curious how the map will turn out

Edited February 23, 2015 by catfood

[shm0]

Hey Deh0lise,

 

Here's that feedback I promised <3 

 

Again, disclaimer - these things are just my opinion and I mean no offence and just intend the best for the map's gameplay.

 

 

B Site:

 

I feel B is too open.  There's too many places for CTs to camp and not enough cover for Terrorists to get past the entrance into the bomb site (from the direct path).  The changes below include pushing the bomb site in 2-3metres from the exterior, adding cover including an additional train car, and *possibly* with discretion - closing off the far/2nd train tunnel.  The fear with these changes is that it makes the map similar to Train, but I believe there's a reason Train is designed the way it is - it executes this type of entry into a site very well - and is appealing for Ts.  I think the current design for the B site is actually somewhat unappealing for Ts, as I feel CTs with AWPs will dominate it.

 

Incoming images explaining:

 

I understand the concern here may be how the bombsite actually plays if the Ts and CTs rush it - the CTs will most likely be much further back into the Tunnels, but also keep in mind that one smoke at the T connection may stop T advancement, allowing the CTs to push up.

 

 

Pushing the train site over and adding an additional Train car and more cover options for Ts entering the site.

 

 

 

This is just a suggestion -would love to hear your thoughts:

The other thing to consider with the far tunnel is creating more vertical gameplay and/or somehow limiting it's approach to the site, as I find right now there's just too many places for the Ts to try to check, clear and cover while getting a plant down - I don't feel I would ever feel comfortable planting in this sight as the last man alive, because a CT can just camp in one of many locations - listen for the plant and pop out while it's being armed.

 

This room would replace the far tunnel, which would be closed off from both ends.

 

 

Other feedback:

 

 

Edited March 6, 2015 by shm0

[Deh0lise]

I'm still working on the models, but I've got the gameplay set. As you can see I've already increased the cover on the site and differentiated the gameplay from train. CTs can access the bombsite using the backdoor which leads to the dark tunnel side (you can see some light on the round train). Going straight double doors wasn't very interesting gameplaywise.

 

I'm going for the Detroit theme FMPONE suggested, though I'm not sure I'll be able to make neons, they require a lot of tris, between 2-3k, and I'm not sure how it will hold. I have some placeholders now (hotel sign, russian sign). I've also changed some decals for guidance, fixed clips, changed lights etc.

 

I'm not gonna eliminate/move the 'trap vent'  in A as it is placed there so it can be controlled easily by CTs, currently the balance of that site is fine as it is imo. I've added a yellow decal though, but it will still be closed as it is interesting for Ts to know when it is open and breakable sound does really help. The vent itself is not just to boost but to retreat as T, sneak as CT behind Ts, throw nades@site... moving it or placing a ladder would diminish the predictability and the way it was meant to be played, though I don't discard further modifications after testing it several times.

[esspho]

...

 

I'm going for the Detroit theme FMPONE suggested, though I'm not sure I'll be able to make neons, they require a lot of tris, between 2-3k, and I'm not sure how it will hold. I have some placeholders now (hotel sign, russian sign). I've also changed some decals for guidance, fixed clips, changed lights etc.

 

...

 

 

2-3 k is actually not that many if you look at most of the stock props. I guess you could also use alpha chanels for the letters in most areas. Keep up the good work.

[El Moroes]

And now I'm always thinking that you could replace your trees with winter trees...without the foliage.

[FMPONE]

I also wouldn't worry about the polys. Also, don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. Big showcase props like that are something somebody else could help you with if you'd feel more comfortable doing that. All that really matters is that you ship a very high quality map :-)

[Deh0lise]

I've released an update, I still want to work more on it, but I've implemented some changes: http://imgur.com/5FREJaf,cMnojs5,QJmvx3v,4SiRMsv,zXS0GP5,VNGCnNg#0

[Vaya]

Is that bluring from the vent or have you done that in photoshop? not sure if it's the timing of the screenshot or not but looks a bit overdone. Other than that the changes to this area look great!