Recruiting process vs salary

[knj]

Guys, I would like to hear what's your take on it, what I mean.

Most basic job posting sounds:
We are looking for BLA BLA BLA, with experience, that can do BLA BLA.
Would be great if he/she could do BLA BLA BLA

to apply send you folio to BLA@ BLA.BLA

We will answer only selected aplication so for others FUCK YOU ;v

In 99% of the cases (at least afaik) when you are trying to be recruted you need to go through some steps:
1. folio selection,

2. art test

3. interview

and sometimes even some other stuff, but let's focus on those three.

Folio selection is that passive form, you just wait. But when it comes to the art test and interview, it's getting harder. You need to spend your time and sometimes even money for the interview (when it's in differen country). In most of the cases you have no idea what kind of salary you can get with that new job untill you are fully recruted ( I know some of you will say money is not the bigger case, true - but you need to live for something ). Untill that point you are not sure if all that effort is even worth it.
Why here in Game Industy jobs posting with salary they can offer (even aprox) are so rare ? Or is there a smart way to ask what kind of cash one can expect before starting the recruting process ?

 

[KoKo5oVaR]

Because once you spend time and money for the art test and going to the interview in another country, the employers know they can negociate and have you accept things more willingly.

 

Well that is the grumpy person answer.

 

Although i know that i had several employers offering me a test and an interview the day after i applied, and when i asked what kind of contract it is, if it is in a limited timeline, for how long it is ( it's cool to know when you have to plan things with family ) i had no further response. Maybe they just felt lazy to write a mail and thus employed someone else.

 

But it is the grumpy person answer

 

 

Also passion you greedy bastard

[Minos]

From my experience a salary is most of the times subjective, each candidate will be offered a different one. The general rule is, a studio usually has a base salary for a given position and depending on the candidate's experience and how much of a good negotiator he is, a higher salary can be negotiated. It all depends on how well you do on the interview and your track record really.

 

The reason companies don't post salaries imo is:

- They might offer a lower salary than the base one if they want to risk hiring a candidate they are not sure about.

- Salaries are highly dependent on the person's skills, experience and personal skills, so even though they have a base or minimum amount, those will always be tweaked for each individual.

- Competing studios in the area might offer slightly higher salaries to steal good candidates.

 

It's really important to brush up your social skills for situations like that too. I've seen quite a few people who were really good at their job making lower salaries because they were too quiet/not very social, and I have also seem less skilled people making higher salaries than their colleagues because they were good negotiators during their interview (but those usually don't last too long in a job).

 

In a games industry interview I'd say that you want to look professional, easy going but also smart. You should not accept any shit that's thrown at you (unless it's your first job of course) but rather ask for some time to make an informed decision if you are not sure about the salary being offered. Generally, the more experienced you are the more you are able to negotiate a higher salary.

 

I don't know, I always try to compare my work to others in the area and use that as a base for what "I'm worth". You also don't want to be an asshole and ask for a higher salary than everyone else just because you think you are "teh shit", that's one of the worst things you can do in an interview tbh.  Always be humble but realistic, and always know what you are worth

[AlexM]

Minos wrapped that up pretty good. 

 

The only thing i'd like to add is it's worth looking at the gamasutra yearly game developer salary surveys to get a little bit of a ballpark on what jobs similar to yours earn.

[Sprony]

It amazes me that the game industry is so far behind when it comes down to collective employment agreements, unions, job security, etc.

[mjens]

That only shows how bad we are at recruitment (as leads trying to find an employee). In my opinion most art test just doesn't work and there's to many "he's/she's different/better so..." situations. We don't have any standards like in movie industry and it's particularly good. Good for guys that can create their image better than real and bad for guys that are good but shy and have no idea about how much they can get. About the art test: some companies are willing more to hire a senior guy when he refuses to do the test. It depends on the reason and there was a nice discussion about that on other dev forum. Anyway, it's not good but still hiring process is just bad.

[knj]

Yes  guys, great point by you, but still not exactly what i was hoping for.

For instance I'm making 3000$, and there is other company that I'm trying to be recruited by, with all that steps (art test, interview ect.). And at the end, lets say I got the job but they are willing to give me 2,500$. At this point, me and them lost about month of a time, right ? Is there a reasonable way, to avoid taht ?

[Sentura]

I don't think so, but maybe you should push them a bit. If you got as far as negotiating wages, say that you're getting so and so where you work now and maybe they'll change their minds. This of course has no bearing on e.g. indie games, where funds are nonexistent.

[mjens]

Yes  guys, great point by you, but still not exactly what i was hoping for.

For instance I'm making 3000$, and there is other company that I'm trying to be recruited by, with all that steps (art test, interview ect.). And at the end, lets say I got the job but they are willing to give me 2,500$. At this point, me and them lost about month of a time, right ? Is there a reasonable way, to avoid taht ?

 

First of all you need to be sure when this salary will be raised. It's usual to give lower salary for the first 3 months as for the test and if you'll pass it you'll get ~500 bucks more. 

 

When you're switching jobs you need to be consistent, if you want to work in other city/country you'll need $800-1500 for apartment, and $2000-3000 for your stuff so you need like, lets say, 3500 bucks and if they can't pay you that it's not worth moving unless it's burning in your current job but it's not a good thing to look for a job desperately because you'll say that $2500 is fine, you'll pay for dept, apartment rent and you're out of cash... 

 

If the new place is worth the effort and lower salary then there's a small conflict like "Come on, you're working at X now, it will be better in Y even with lover salary!". Actually you can land in way worse company so it's good to do some recognition. When it's OK then I guess it's worth to move to better company and do your best to get a pay rise in next few months by doing great job, not by just talking "I wanna $".

 

We should talk privately

[Vilham]

What I have learnt is never accept that lower wage for x months bullshit or any promise of a salary negotiation after x months. Fuck that.

[Warby]

-i have so far always been paid/reimbursed for flight tickets and hotel stays so why is flying out to an interview such a big deal?

 

if salary is so important to you/someone just bring it up as soon as possible... like before the art test.

[dkm]

Also be aware of salaries in different countries (if moving abroad), it's hard to know exactly what to expect.

I realized I was fairly underpaid after I moved and it took quite some time to get back to a 'regular' salary

[mjens]

That's right, most of the companies pay for the trip/hotel. If they want to give you less money for first X months just make sure you'll get it on paper.

[blackdog]

Interesting topic! Useful tips and point of views.

So I think that everything boils down to the question: "how soon in the application process one should approach the salary subject and how to ask about it (without looking greedy)"?

[Skjalg]

If I had an interview that was far away and they wouldn't pay for my traveling expenses then I probably would not go.