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MapCore CS:GO Playtesting 4.0


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Today marks my three year anniversary of hosting playtests for MapCore. I think this is a good time for me to go into retirement and hand the organization over to a suitable successor. And the su

I would like to thank you for your diligent work hosting the server. You have been very generous and patient and I am certain a lot of Mapcore mappers are very thankful for your service. I know I am!

PSA: New Playtest Plugin! Those of you who attended the last playtests might have noticed already, we're using a new plugin for our playtests! Splewis, one of the greatest plugin creators for Counter

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My map submission is being turned down because, "It is not ready to be playtested."  There's no indication of what that means.  It doesn't tell me that the map, say, doesn't have a radar, or is missing spawns, it just says, "not ready."  Will one of the moderators tell me what that means?  Nobody else seems to be able to give a good explanation.

Also, I'm glad the workshop is acceptable now, that really makes a lot of sense.

 

There are some minor problems about your map which were listed in the excel sheet. While these were list they were not the main reason why your map was turned down. At the end of the day your map was turned down purely on the layout. I’ll go over how you can correct the small things and then talk about how to build a better and more sound layout from the ground up.

 

Spawns is one of the easiest to fix. All you needed to do was add five more spawns to each side, as the playtest requires it to be possible to do a 10v10.

 

Doors is another problem your map faces. There are simple too many of them. With the current map roster all of have less than one door for the whole map, the exception being de_nuke. Doors are used to hide a player’s advance and to act as a very strong natural choke point. Door should never be used as a means to solve timing issues, or as a way to make your map feel more realistic. This is also why doors across all maps open at a speed of 200, they are there as chokehold not speed barrier.

 

Like doors, there are too many vents in your map. While you can argue that the empire state building has 50 miles of radiator pipes and my map should too, this is a weak and laughable argument. Layouts should not rely on the use of vents, as they are awkward and restrictive in gameplay. The only map which have a good use of vents and timing is de_mirage. The vent into the window room is used to slow down CTs to mid. A good example of vents as a chokehold is the vent into checker on de_cache. These are the two only reasons why vents should be used at all, and even then they should be used as little as possible.

 

Cover is something that many newer mapmakers make the assumption that more is better. While this could be said about some single player games it is never the case for multiplayer games. In multiplayer games predictability is one of the core values to gameplay. It doesn’t matter if it is an RTS, MOBA, FPS, MMO, Fighting game, or god forbids a real sport. You want to make the game predictable as there are two sides to each game. An unpredictable game leaves players frustrated, bored, and angry. This is also the case with too much cover, and because of this carefully planned cover is always the better choice.

 

A very simple thing you could have added to your map is simple decals to help guide your players around the map. There isn’t much to really say about this for as it is self explanatory.

 

Now to the real reason why your map was turned down, layout. As far as I can tell this map is your first attempt at building multiplayer map, which is great! Building maps is a great use of cogent thinking, problem solving, and creative thinking, I encourage you to continue working on projects that promote similar trains of thought. There however big problem which you need a pointer on.

 

For every action a player makes there should be a negative punishment that the action should carry. If a player goes to defend site A he should be made accountable for that action when he rotates all the way to B site. For many games resources are the punishment for a misplay, in Dota when you are killed you lose some of the gold which you were carrying. This idea is also prominent for Counter Strike, however the resources are time, weapons and money. While we cannot affect two of the resources in Counter Strike with a new map, we can greatly affect the the resource time. Many players call this “timings” and that is exactly what it is. When you are forced to rotate you are being punished for an action that did not work. Many times the players also have a choice to make with their rotation, do they wish to take the faster but more dangerous path or the slower and safer path? This is something that you have yet to realize when making. Your rotation are very fast, awkward and some give a large advantage with vertical gameplay. Before trying to design a new layout take a few weeks to study the current map roster to understand how rotations are used. I recommend studying de_dust2, de_cache, de_resort, de_mirage and lastly de_overpass for great examples on how timing is built into the layout.

 
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I suppose in synopsis, what I really want to say is, this layout could be the best you've ever seen or the worst you've ever seen.  There's no telling how a map will perform just because it has an unorthodox feature in it.  In this map, what I want to see is whether a layout with lots of doors or vents can work in Counter Strike.  How am I supposed to tell without playtesting it?  How can I learn if I can't see how my ideas actually perform?

Well...the short answer is they never do BUT since you're so set on the layout I think the mods should allow this playtest. It's not like there's a clamor for spaces just now...

 

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Counter-Strike is not a new game. It exists for more than 15 years now. I think people know a bit about what works and what doesn`t work by now.

edit: btw I updated my map to better prepare it for the playtesting session. Fixed spots where you could get out of the map, added decals for bombsites and stuff like that.

Edited by crowbAr
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Hey guys,

I submitted my map "de_change" for playtesting session on 20.8. today. But I want to clarify, that the current version in steam workshop is not the one for testing. I'm currently working on a big update coming out not later than monday. I hope there are no problem with this approach.

Edited by y-man
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Hey guys,

I submitted my map "de_change" for playtesting session on 20.8. today. But I want to clarify, that the current version in steam workshop is not the one for testing. I'm currently working on a big update coming out not later than monday. I hope there are no problem with this approach.

Just saw this after I sent you a message. This is approach is fine, just make sure to add that extra T spawn as you are missing one!

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If you don't want to hear a defense about these issues, just skip this next block.  It really just talks about what I think, which isn't really too valuable (I'll admit it).

Ok, this has gone on long enough now. I really hate that I'm forced into this position. Something that almost never happens in this wonderful community. But I gave you some friendly advice on the last page. In the mean time other people, who are very knowledgeable about CSGO, gave you solid advice as well. In fact @MaanMan spelled it out for you. Still, you insist on being stubborn and refuse to take the advice that is given to you. People are using their free time for this, respect that. But since you don't, I'm going to make this very simple for you. Either play ball or go home. That's it. I don't want see any more discussion.

 

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[...] I hope there are no problem with this approach.

I'm going for the same approach here. I signed up for a slot on the 20th for a last minute playtest. Following my schedule I'm confident to update the workshop not later than the 19th. I hope that's okay.

Cheers!

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I'm also submitting an older version of my map as a placeholder for Aug 18th. I will be uploading a huge update to the workshop by the 15th or so.

Also for some of the fields I was referring to a google drive link I was making until I noticed workshop is accepted now, which is awesome! The filename is just "de_shipyard" on the workshop.

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srsly, i don't even want to give feedback to this guy. all of the csgo playtesters played LOTS of different maps and know what they are talking about. there is no reason to act bitchy. i also walked around the map and can just agree to what the others said. also: even a bad map is fun when you play it with friends. so that's no indicator of the quality of your map. and it doesn't need 20 playtesters to see the obvious flaws of a layout.

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Not to draw this out or anything, but don't you think banning is a bit much? As far as I can tell, Bozo's worst offense is ignoring good advice, and that only hurts himself. If he hadn't been called a "prick" quite early on in this whole fiasco I'm sure it would have fizzled out weeks ago, but as soon as that line was crossed people had to take sides and throw in their opinions (myself included) and there was no way anybody would come out of it unscathed. The CS:GO competition has opened the forum up to a lot of new people so there was bound to be the odd tussle here and there, but it really didn't need to get to banning level, and honestly I don't think Bozo is solely responsible for this situation. Instead of resorting to extreme measures, maybe we all just need to reflect on our parts in the debate, learn what we can and move on. Trying to get "the last word" in a forum discussion is a futile endeavor -- being the first to "get over it" is where the money's at.

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Not to draw this out or anything, but don't you think banning is a bit much? As far as I can tell, Bozo's worst offense is ignoring good advice, and that only hurts himself. If he hadn't been called a "prick" quite early on in this whole fiasco I'm sure it would have fizzled out weeks ago, but as soon as that line was crossed people had to take sides and throw in their opinions (myself included) and there was no way anybody would come out of it unscathed. The CS:GO competition has opened the forum up to a lot of new people so there was bound to be the odd tussle here and there, but it really didn't need to get to banning level, and honestly I don't think Bozo is solely responsible for this situation. Instead of resorting to extreme measures, maybe we all just need to reflect on our parts in the debate, learn what we can and move on. Trying to get "the last word" in a forum discussion is a futile endeavor -- being the first to "get over it" is where the money's at.

That's very well said. I'm not pro banning. In fact, that almost never happens here. The problem is that he won't listen. I and others have repeatedly advised him. Not only in this thread. After he still wouldn't listen, I've warned him multiple times. Still, he refuses to listen or to respect anyone. Ultimately, he keeps derailing these threads. So yes, banning is a last resort but when someone starts somewhere else even after you've locked their topics, if someone keeps going at it despite the warnings and if someone keeps an attitude of screw you all, you are here to serve me, then banning is the one thing left to do. 

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