Dahell is happening in Kiev

[-HP-]

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

 

lol

[Steppenwolf]

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140722/191112937/Russia-to-Respond-Adequately-to-NATO-Expansion-Putin.html

 

More cold war bullshit from Putin. What makes it so devious is that it's HIM who expanded his military presence in western direction over last couple months in practical terms.

 

It's the same "Evil NATO prepares to attack us" bullshit when Soviet Union had 3 times more tanks in their doctrine for steam roling northern Europe.

[Warby]

"Seit Fuenf Uhr Fuenfundvierzig wird nun zurueck geschossen"- anyone ? 

[Steppenwolf]

Yea how dare NATO to protect its borders against an increasingly rabid and unpredictable neighbor.

[FrieChamp]

Russia feels betrayed since former Warsaw Pact members like Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary etc. joined NATO. Regardless of whether there was a formal commitment that this would never ever happen or not, there was apparently an understanding between Eastern and Western politicians at the time of the German reunification and Germany's entrance to NATO, that NATO wouldn't push further East. Yet this is what's happening and I think that notion that NATO is creeping further towards Russian borders and cannot be trusted explains why Russia is reacting the way it does in the Ukrainian matter. With the change in government (pro-EU, pro-NATO) they saw their most important military base by the Black Sea about to be lost due to NATO and didn't want to let that happen.

[Steppenwolf]

So Russia is acting like it does because its neighbors act like they do because Russia acts like it does?

NATO as an aggressor fits well into the Russian narrative but the reality is that countries like the baltic countries would be Russian puppets again without NATO protection und suffer the same violations of freedom and human rights as people in Belorussia for example.

[FrieChamp]

It's a vicious circle. Maybe these countries would still be a "buffer zone" today, but it is more likely that your're right: they would be governed by Kreml-loyal authoritarian leaders.

[Warby]

So Russia is acting like it does because its neighbors act like they do because Russia acts like it does?

 

Now that is warfare in a nutshell isnt it ...

[D3ads]

State department doesn't know who fired the missile but it was "probably" the separatists... and just days ago, Kerry was claiming they had "satellite data that shows exactly who fired it and that Russia supplied them with the means to do it"... guess it's just another case of Kerry talking out of his arse again... They seem to contradict themselves a lot, Russia trains the separatists yet they lack the training to operate SA-11... which is it?

 

Yesterday a public investigation on Litvinenko's death was opened, just coincidence of course.. only less than a year ago Teresa May was insisting there would be one because we didn't want to harm relations with Russia. Hmmmm...

Edited July 23, 2014 by D3ads

[r1ar]

EU/USA news that you read not so free as you think, don't forget about it when you read political text from "free journalist".

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HSQrNPIyRI

Edited July 23, 2014 by r1ar

[Vilham]

For a start he isn't a CIA officer he is an economist. Literally took me 2 seconds to check that. So yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on what he says. I mean here is his statement on the plane.

 

"One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it."

 

Except they factually 100% do have BUK AA. 

 

"Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet."

 

No one is claiming they did it on purpose or did it thinking it was a low-flying attack aircraft, as has been proven by their own statements they thought it was a Ukrainian transport plane.

 

So basically this guy is a fucking idiot who has done zero research on any of this. Honestly this guy is a clown and is using this tragedy to push his own agenda.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/

Edited July 23, 2014 by Vilham

[Algor]

"CIA officer Paul Craig Roberts"...

 

A quick search will tell you Paul Craig Roberts was never a member of the CIA. The implied title would appear to give him some credibility, otherwise he is just another radical making wild statements that people just eat up as truth.

[Steppenwolf]

EU/USA news that you read not so free as you think, don't forget about it when you read political text from "free journalist".

 

Everybody knows most of the media is corrupt. What i find a big difference is the attitude of the population tho. Most Russians just seem to swallow state run media whereas people in the west call out their media all the time for bullshit reporting.

 

It doesn't surprise me when US officials lie and it doesn't surprise me how toothless EU/US reacts to the Russian provocations. They are shitting their pants because it could cost our economies a couple billions. There is another lesson to be learned here which is that one oligarch does not pick another oligarch's eye out.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Steppenwolf

[r1ar]

Everybody knows most of the media is corrupt

 

 

Some guys on this forums thinking what their journalists is white fluffy rabbits.

Edited July 23, 2014 by r1ar

[D3ads]

Heavy fighting in Lysychansk, Lugansk Oblast. Ukrainian forces have taken several other cities also, seems the calls by our politicians for an immediate ceasfire only applies to Putin. I've always doubted direct Russian involvement since there's never been any real proof and this only strengthens my view that if Kremlin was backing them (they no doubt have funding coming from elements within RF but connections to the government are not concrete), they wouldn't be losing so much ground. Slovyansk was a huge blow and it seems like only a few days before they'll try to enter Donetsk.

Edited July 23, 2014 by D3ads