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Kirizai

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Like others have said, the engine doesn't matter that much. Both Unity and Unreal have their pros and cons. It's almost safe to say that Unity is a thousand times more user friendly. In the end, that doesn't matter as well if you guys feel comfortable when playing with Unreal.

I myself am a lot more experienced with Unity, but I don't think that not being an expert with Unreal would be a disadvantage for my curriculum, because tools are just tools. What really matters is what you can create with them. Game dev studios often have their own specific engines (sometimes a heavily modified version of an existing engine).

I believe that when Phoenixx157 said that he could model in Unreal but not in Unity, he was talking about using BSP (or whatever is called that technique to modify geometries in Hammer)... right? Well, there are some plugins that enable the same feature in Unity. One of them is ProBuilder, developed by the same guys that created the ProGrids. One of the devs is a member of Mapcore (sixbyseven). I've been using ProBuilder extensively during the last three days (50 hours~) and it's very easy to use. It has some bugs, but it gets the job done.

tl;dr: I'd choose Unity because that's what the programmer is more comfortable with (C#) and the modelling could be done in Max, Maya, Blender etc.

Edited by Al Anselmo~Intelect0

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Like others have said, the engine doesn't matter that much. Both Unity and Unreal have their pros and cons. It's almost safe to say that Unity is a thousand times more user friendly. In the end, that doesn't matter as well if you guys feel comfortable when playing with Unreal.

I myself am a lot more experienced with Unity, but I don't think that not being an expert with Unreal would be a disadvantage for my curriculum, because tools are just tools. What really matters is what you can create with them. Game dev studios often have their own specific engines (sometimes a heavily modified version of an existing engine).

I believe that when Phoenixx157 said that he could model in Unreal but not in Unity, he was talking about using BSP (or whatever is called that technique to modify geometries in Hammer)... right? Well, there are some plugins that enable the same feature in Unity. One of them is ProBuilder, developed by the same guys that created the ProGrids. One of the devs is a member of Mapcore (sixbyseven). I've been using ProBuilder extensively during the last three days (50 hours~) and it's very easy to use. It has some bugs, but it gets the job done.

tl;dr: I'd choose Unity because that's what the programmer is more comfortable with (C#) and the modelling could be done in Max, Maya, Blender etc.

Our LD has used Progrids and Probuilder before, trial versions I'm sure. I'll try to get everything to work out. whether it finding a way for the LD to feel more comfortable with Unity or have him use 3ds Max/Gmax, or have the Programmer use HAXE, I recall him already knowing that language, and I think he's comforable with it. Whatever it is, I'll post the conclusion and how this plays out. Thank for your help guys.

Edited by Kirizai

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i recognize this discussion. it's not one i've had with anyone, but it's definitely one i've had in my head lining out the pros and cons. i've used both engines professionally. i'll flat out say that scripting in unity may be the best thing ever, provided you don't need someone to hold your hand (as in kismet). it gets better as creating new editor features are as easy as knowing C#. UDK has a built in FBX export which can export for unity. it's not the most optional, especially for prototyping 3d spaces fast, but it works. probuilder is a great alternative at the very least for blocking out and playtesting fast. at best one can really do some cool stuff with it.

UDK isn't bad either, but speaking from a professional UE3 perspective, it might be going overboard for a smaller game. UDK literally has the power to do everything, but in this it becomes very feature creepy and may be too hard to manage for a smaller team. i don't know how it is with UE4, all i have heard is that they've made it easier. this may shed some light: http://www.unrealengine.com/udk/

finally, sort of echoing everyone else: focus on the game, focus on the gameplay, focus on the driving power of the game. you might start with unity then find out through prototyping that UDK is the better alternative. once you know what you're really going to make the game about and the scope of it, the choice will seem more obvious

Edited by Sentura

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2: UDK has snapping

2: Better snapping

1: Hold ctrl+shift in unity

1: Move

I just have to mention a really good script for snapping in unity. Put the attached script anywhere in your unity project folder and open your scene. Then press "Ctrl + L" this will open a menu for auto-grid snapping, in this window you can set to how many units you want your translated object to snap to.

If you would point-snap something it would move there as always but right after it would snap to the grid again. Try it out!

AutoSnap.zip

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Ask your programmer which he'd prefer to use. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble down the line. Your level designer should deal with it and be able to design with either really, it'll massively benefit him to know both tools anyway. Unity can also do basic geometry and you can do some nice prototyping (BSP) if you buy probuilder (which is awesome).

I'd recommend Unity for a small team, I've been using it and love it more and more every day. Unity also has some great add ons you can buy that'll save you a ton of time.

Unless you're only using really simple geometry for your game, you'll want to do your modelling in a 3D package like Max or Maya.

Edited by Jord

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I think the skills of the programmer might make or break the project if you wanna go the procedural way.

I'm also not aware how you're going to proceduarally make a level in UDK... (It's built and baked, can't move BSP around can you? Unless you export them as a mesh?)

So then you might as well go with static meshes made in an external 3D package and at this point it doesn't matter what engine you use. Personally I'd advise using Unity... And perhaps use some tools for BSP like features like probuilder if you really need it.

UDK seems user friendly at first but it's immensively more complex under the hood for a project like this (students?) Unity would likely create less headaches if you have decent coder support, you can just focus on building what you want.

So I'll repeat, go with what the programmer wants. As a LD you'll just have to work around it but knowing that the coder can support the tools to make things work from a technical standpoint should make you go a long way.

Edited by Chimeray

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Maybe Nexus Pericolos0 is able to give further advice, given that he is working on a procedural FPS in Unity and knows both middlewares.

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Yeh Unity sounds like the best option here. Though I can understand the Level Designer. Unity doesn't have a SDK like any other engine which makes it a lot harder to get into. But in the end you have a lot more freedom to do whatever you want. Also creating tools for Unity is fairly easy for a coder. Aand the best of all V for vertex snapping is just epic :)

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When the dungeons are randomly created what exactly is the point of a level designer on the project? Sounds more like the job for an artist to create the rooms. So for an artists it shouldn't really matter which engine to use. He will spent most his time in other tools. I would go with what the programmer feels more comfortable with.

Phoenixx157 you should see the bright side that you get experience in two different engines/toolsets. It will help your CV when you apply for a job.

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When the dungeons are randomly created what exactly is the point of a level designer on the project? Sounds more like the job for an artist to create the rooms. So for an artists it shouldn't really matter which engine to use. He will spent most his time in other tools. I would go with what the programmer feels more comfortable with.

Phoenixx157 you should see the bright side that you get experience in two different engines/toolsets. It will help your CV when you apply for a job.

Not necessarily, they can split the tasks : artist modeling only items, props, walls, etc, and LD making prefabs with those meshes to create several portion of rooms.

I also think that unity, seing the features, would fit better for a small team like you have. Unity is easier to use and do not request a lot of knowledge of the software : importing objects, settings project, materials, etc is way easier to accomplish.

And just to say : i did my last year project under UDK with 17 guys, that was fun, but it was also painful for our programers to learn Uscript instead of using C++.

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This thread came at an opportune time for me, as I've been struggling with the same choice for a bit. Unity seems the most flexible, and I'm learning C# anyway so that's convenient. I'm also going for a procedurally generated game, if I manage to get this thing off the ground.

Then again, I'm just an armchair game designer at this point. A 3D game might be a bit ambitious for my first project. What do you guys think?

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personally i think 3d games are easier to do than 2d unless you have an engine optimized for 2d (such as flixel or similar). i'd much rather just have 3d environments then make the camera just avoid one dimension entirely. it creates a few problems along the way (such as players not being visible at all times), but these are neglible compared to how fast you can get this up and running.

there are also some 2d frameworks for unity out there that look good and simple, though i can't say i've ever tried them out.

like i said before, unity is very good for scripting and prototyping in C#, probably the best one can ask for - especially as a designer. however, without tools like probuilder you'll be hard pressed to get 3d environments working in a manageable way. if you choose UDK you'd have to do the entire scripting in kismet, but the editor would be built in and everything would be workable out of the box. unity is completely barebone out of the box, by contrast.

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Haxe doesn't interface with UDK or Unity. It's C++ export is more for dealing with desktop apps made in NME. I suppose you could try to mesh it with the c++ UDK that will come eventually but that seems more difficult than just programming in c++ in the first place.

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For a small project that students are going to create, then go for the engine that the programmer feels the most comfortable working with. Its way easier to create something in c# than it is in c++, so I can understand your programmer. And if you compare the two as level design tools then udk is more advanced out of the box, but theres so many 3rd party solutions for unity that you'd be silly to discount it on that basis alone.

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