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OT i know, but seriously guys, Doom3 was a gem. It might be a rough around the edges gem, but a gem nonetheless.

Rage was a great game, it just had a rushed and rough launch and some bad design decisions, this one in particular is a highly underrated game in my opinion, mostly because of both those reasons, which really is a gigantic shame.

People are just too picky nowadays, and extremely spoiled.

Man I know I'm probably gonna get lynched for this but I tried to play Doom 3 4 or 5 times and always get bored when the demons appear. The most I played was probably for 3 or 4 hours. I just can't stand the bland story, shitty gameplay, crappy weapon feel, predictable and cliche "scary" moments every 2 minutes, crappy pacing etc... the list goes on.

Game still looks awesome and better than 90% of games out there though, but that only serves to prove that beautiful graphics can't make up for shitty gameplay :P

Having said that I guess it was worth buying it on a steam deal for the art alone though. I always fire it up every now and then for inspiration. :twisted:

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Doom 3 was a greeeeaaaaat game that tried to take itself far too seriously in an attempt to settle in with the modern day game trend. Real elephant in the room thing. RAGE was good but really generic and nothing special with a terrible ending. I really do think that iD is struggling to keep in touch with where the game industry is now. I don't think consoles are for them, as they can't be iD then, big shiny graphics, but I don't think remaking the same games over and over again is all that great either. Doom is... was, amazing. But remaking it again? Really? Doom is the only thing keeping them above the water as a company. There is Wolf but everyone is sick of WW2 and I don't ever see there being another competitive multiplayer FPS like Quake 3 from them again, that age is long dead. So is there no one at iD with any imagination left? What I would give for Romero and Hall to go back there. Imagine what they could do with Carmack and today's technology.

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And that's not something you want to deal with when you want to do good level design, you can't make a doom game this way :). You want something thats fast and easy to work with, that you can iterate with and doesn't give you a lot of restrictions. RAGE engine was good for artists i guess, but restrictive for everything else

To be honest it's not *that* bad. Iteration time is mostly for art if you want your geometry lit with lightmaps or megatextured but scripting is almost on the fly.

Id still have some incredibly talented people, they just need to make a good game soon :)

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Doom 3 ran out of steam quite quickly for me. I tried to play it a few times, and each time I managed to get some way in but just became completely fatigued by what seemed like extremely repetitive gameplay. The jump scares and such are great the first few times, but it soon becomes apparent that the game is out of tricks.

I actually found Quake 4 to be a more interesting experience, in that there was at least more variety. That too got tiresome after a while though. I don't know, maybe these old-school games just aren't my thing any more.

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I like Doom 3, as I've said before it was exactly the game ID wanted to make and they did it well. Enemy encounters were repetitive like they were in Doom where if you found some kind of pickup, usually a wall would open up to reveal some imps or zombie soldiers. The reinvisioning of the demons was spot-on (although I wasn't too impressed with the Cyberdemon) and I nearly shit myself when I first encountered the Hell Knight...

Also "dem graphics" game was and still is for the most part extremely beautiful...

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"Two sources told me that earlier this year, frustrated with the lack of progress on Doom 4, ZeniMax came to Id with an ultimatum: make something happen, or else."

This sounds bad :(

At this point the right thing to do –to me– would be to stop working on this game and do something else for a while. I also would be curious to see what an external team would be able to do with the IP and a blank slate to work on; I fear that id is under an unbearable amount of pressure to make Doom happen, and I mean from their very own selves first and foremost. Then they face (enraged) fans and a (skeptical) publisher.

I hope they can pull it off.

The real issue is that I think people who come to play an id Software game expect the game to be fast, filled with carnange, and brutally hard.

This is us, we grew eating pizza and Doom, but let's make an headcount: how many can we be? We are a niche of the current market, and we unfortunately aren't as big as Bethesda's targets. Or whatever publisher for the matter.

I have also heard from those who worked on it that compiling and getting things playable is a serious nightmare.

Guess it is, they provided these kind of numbers

TYPICAL BUILD TIMES:

* Initial map loads: 20–60 minutes

* Load times after initial load: 1–3 minutes

...

http://cdnstatic.bet...Kit Welcome.pdf

who would want to work in these conditions :?

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This is us, we grew eating pizza and Doom, but let's make an headcount: how many can we be? We are a niche of the current market, and we unfortunately aren't as big as Bethesda's targets. Or whatever publisher for the matter.

Yeah but then they should call it "Cool boyz perks shooter" and release as a new IP, and save the Doom sequel until the niche market is big enough instead of messing up Doom (more) :(

Edited by Evert

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I must clarify that when I'm writing that Doom 3 and Rage were/are bad, that's not because I think they are bad compared to, let's say HL2 or uh... I don't know, COD or whatever new there is. I'm constantly comparing new action games to action games around or before y2000, I'm doing so because I still play these games from time to time. I played through Quake 2 with expansions a couple months ago, it's still fun for me, last summer me and a friend played through the Blood campaign in coop - it was awesome.

I'm really living in the past, it's like I'm still waiting for that Doom 2 sequel that never came.

The real issue is that I think people who come to play an id Software game expect the game to be fast, filled with carnange, and brutally hard. Recent id games are woefully missing the challenge and difficulty expected of them. If "Ultra-Violence" is too easy and "Nightmare" is even remotely possible to play, they're doing it wrong. They are also missing the labyrinth-like complex level design that were prevalent with earlier id titles. Early Doom and Quake titles didn't have a specific route that you were supposed to take, you were left on your own devices to explore the map and find your own way though dead ends and locked doors. But that type of gameplay conflicts with the cinematic type game which requires a certain level of linear gameplay. And that's why these new titles don't feel like an id game.

What you just said. Are you by any chance the quake-obsidian?

Edited by Hipshot

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What you just said. Are you by any chance the quake-obsidian?

You recognized me. I will now have to use my ninja skills to track you down. Prepare to be hunted. (Yeah I lurk here sometimes)

Edited by Obsidian

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I remember the days when the name Doom sold itself. Now it needs a heavy marketing campaign to shove it's beta through people's throats. Are they really so insecure about the new Doom that they have to promote it like that? They probably are. Because let's face it, Id Software has made one game in 10 years and it was mediocre at best. The big names are long gone. Bethesda, should really just put the studio name to rest. It's long overdue. Put talented studios on the IP's. Studios that know how to get shit done instead of working half a decade on something apparently so bad it has to be rebooted.

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I can understand trying to put an investment to profit, and Doom is not like a saturated brand.

What I can't understand is pushing a technology like Tech 5 that seems anachronistic to other projects like Dishonored, forcing the team to migrate to a totally different pipeline.

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