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Rick_D

Tropes vs Women in Video Games

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Wtf thrik did you know about this! A hispanic on this forum! An outrage, this forum is for white males only! /s

Thrik makes exceptions sometimes, e.g. helder and mino.

So am I not a latin/ hispanic anymore? Did you forget about me? That's racist!

lol

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When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

I'm not sure your post is for real because it sounds like straight copypasta from a feminist blog.

But since this isn't EOT i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

First off i think it's presumtuous that "straight white males" arn't supposed to express an opinion on racism, homophobia etc. that doesn't comply 100% withyour own. People are individuals no matter their skin color or sexual orientation and everybody has the freedom to express an opinion. It has no bearing on the validity or invalidity of an opinion.

The next thing is you put things in peoples mouth or make wild assumptions about everyone. Please point me to "sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real" comments in this thread. I think it's very real which makes it the more dubious that she spents 160k$ on badly researched videos about a pretty trivial subject in the grand scheme of things and still keeps asking for donations mind you. Ther's 1000x more sexism in the comment sections about her stuff then in the video games she talks about. And those arn't even remotely close to the worst abuse that women and homosexuals can experience irl. But hey who gives a shit about setting priorities, right?

Then what really irks me is how arbitrary the word sexism gets thrown around as a knockout argument, completely warping the meaning of it in the process just to make other peole look bad. Instead of attacking users why not make a constructive post about why you think she's right with all her accusations and assumptions? Then we can discuss the validity of it in an equaly constructive manner.

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When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

I'm not sure your post is for real because it sounds like straight copypasta from a feminist blog.

But since this isn't EOT i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

First off i think it's presumtuous that "straight white males" arn't supposed to express an opinion on racism, homophobia etc. that doesn't comply 100% withyour own. People are individuals no matter their skin color or sexual orientation and everybody has the freedom to express an opinion. It has no bearing on the validity or invalidity of an opinion.

The next thing is you put things in peoples mouth or make wild assumptions about everyone. Please point me to "sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real" comments in this thread. I think it's very real which makes it the more dubious that she spents 160k$ on badly researched videos about a pretty trivial subject in the grand scheme of things and still keeps asking for donations mind you. Ther's 1000x more sexism in the comment sections about her stuff then in the video games she talks about. And those arn't even remotely close to the worst abuse that women and homosexuals can experience irl. But hey who gives a shit about setting priorities, right?

Then what really irks me is how arbitrary the word sexism gets thrown around as a knockout argument, completely warping the meaning of it in the process just to make other peole look bad. Instead of attacking users why not make a constructive post about why you think she's right with all her accusations and assumptions? Then we can discuss the validity of it in an equaly constructive manner.

Some valid points, but what the fuck can you do with $160,000. I can't even buy a good yacht with that kind of money.

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Like campaign junkie said, I thought we were better than this, I thought being in the industry we would see exactly the kind of shit that happens on a day to day basis. Marketing and demographics over-rule common sense and morals, and those demographics aren't even accurate. Just because YOU think white males aged 20 make up 90% of the people playing games, and that those kids only like shooting arabs, doesn't make it true.

Personally I am getting tired of video games, I don't want fucking action shoved down my throat every second of every hour. I want good games that feature stories, arcs, progression. I want to feel that same "wow" I feel when I put down a good book, or finish watching a great movie. Just sitting with the status quo gets us shit like lollipop Chainsaw, and Hitman (recognisable by her small tits lol get it because she has small tits and she must be killed lmao!).

TL;DR for dux and sentura: fuck you lmao

When have you ever heard from someone in the industry that 90% of gamers are white 20 males. I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the average gamer age is like 33 and that 40% of gamers are women. I have literally never heard someone in the industry claim otherwise. (although those statistics in themselves are worthless as there are demographics for different games (or do we want to generalise gamers as well), just as there is a demographic for barbie dolls and everything else in human existance (people are different, different people like different things)

As to the shooters thing. Try expanding your horizons, there are thousands of games out there that focus on other things. I would say you perceiving only shooters is more your problem of generalising the "industry".

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I thought being in the industry we would see exactly the kind of shit that happens on a day to day basis. Marketing and demographics over-rule common sense and morals, and those demographics aren't even accurate. Just because YOU think white males aged 20 make up 90% of the people playing games, and that those kids only like shooting arabs, doesn't make it true.

Personally I am getting tired of video games, I don't want fucking action shoved down my throat every second of every hour. I want good games that feature stories, arcs, progression. I want to feel that same "wow" I feel when I put down a good book, or finish watching a great movie.

That's the part of her argument that i agree with and from which perspective it should be discussed. It's an creative and buisness issue. I'm getting sick and tired of the same old tropes and stereotypes aswell.

What i don't believe is that anyone sits in a studio and decides "hey lets put this helpless but beautiful princess in the game so we can demean and objectivy women". These decissions are not made with malicious intend. It's purely a lack of creativity and unwillingness to risk new ideas. Ignorance perhaps but that's hardly the same as sexism or misogyny which is implied by Anita and other feminists as the core of the problem.

But then to be fair with some of the filth she gets as response to her work how can she not believe to be surrounded by sexist mysogynist gamers? It's a bit like someone who's clinically paranoid actualy getting stalked.

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apinians

i openly support equality for all, race, gender, sexuality notwithstanding. i think, as someone else mentioned that she should be free to make and post these videos regardless of if her opinion is seen as "counter-sexist". it's fine, i don't mind being labelled whatever because i know it wouldn't be an unanimous decision by everyone on the planet. i think she could do a better job at convincing people why her topic is so important, but that's among my greatest criticisms for her. i think the crux for her videos or her message in general (i guess this is for zealous feminists) should be focusing at putting people in the imposition that women are in. when discussing this subject among women i often hear, "you don't know what it's like". and that's the thing: if i knew what it was like, i would have an easier time grasping what to do about it. it's hard to explain a feel to someone else in words, and in our day and time we have a boon in media (books, films, games) that could allow us to create a scenario where one could make a reader/goer/player be in the imposition that women are in. the message would be better conveyed, and instead of instigating this kind of provocation (i'm speaking purely based on observation here - males in general seem to not take too kindly to how she puts forward her points), you could have people that would push further for equality in vidya games/whatever other medium.

my problem with this kind of feminism lies in (again based on observation) that the people behind feminism seem more focused riling up the audience and causing an "us versus them" separation instead of focusing on pushing forward something worthwhile. i know the series isn't done yet, but i'm hoping we will see more of things done right instead of just her telling us things in the past done wrong. at least in that way, she could inspire future game developers to have a template understanding of how to maturely handle women in video games. doing the "here is a list of things that are wrong" without a comparison for what is right simply becomes a hate speech more than anything else.

i also thought that this was relevant:

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Edited by Sentura

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The industry likes the statistic that almost half of gamers are female and aged over thirty because it shows a diversity and maturity they would like to be associated with. People on this board presumably realise from their own experience that the audience of core titles is a much younger and male-dominated space.

Anyway, talking about demographics reminded me of a post I was linked to written by Kelly Sue DeConnick in her Reddit AMA. It is, of course, concerning comics but much of it seems to parallel the games industry.

http://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/134f6k/i_am_kelly_sue_deconnick_writer_of_ghost_captain/c7184q1?context=1

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