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1 hour ago, fewseb said:

thats ghosting, not cheating. Also easily fixable by adding a spectator delay like they have in comp.

Ghosting is cheating. You get an unfair, unallowed advantage. You do not use a program but you use a human who kinda act like one.

Edited by Ringel

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I was kinda thinking back at the game mode today and my complaint is that it doesn’t feel “CS” enough. For a new player coming into the game now, because it’s free and there’s battle royale, there’s very little they can learn and take to the classic game modes.

I wish there was more shooting, the fall damage seems too harsh, maybe we should spawn with the knife and have the tools be an upgrade, bringing back the classic feeling of “knife rounds” from pre-CSGO.

(There should also probably be a zip-line 😬 (maybe will be added as was mentioned in some leak for HL3/HLVR) and some other kind of environmental interaction to use.)

Where I see CSGO going now is: it either blows up, gaining users thanks to BR, but create essentially two communities due to the differences from the base game (see above), or numbers will dwindle quickly, and Valve will have to make some radical changes to bring the BR mode closer to the CS core.

See for reference this trailer for Dying Lyght: you can instantly recognise it as that game, and does seem to play on the core gameplay/strengths. Remove the UI and Danger Zone could be any mod or indie developed BR game/mode.

~

On another note, thanks to 3kliks video I realised you can throw the tools! (Great first win demo he has there as well)

 

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Even if numbers dwindled quickly they have a bunch of content ready to go, we’ve already heard of a map enclave and I think survival island. They’ll be good for 2019 I’m sure

I agree the mode needs some tweaks and suggested on twitter making a non-random loot map for a try at a competitive version. But tbh the fact that they’ve been developing all of this content (a ton of work) and the fact that it resulted in a nice player gain, you can rest assured they’ll keep improving it.

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On 12/6/2018 at 6:41 PM, text_fish said:

New plan: Massive CSGO Battle Royale map set in Venice, as part of a huge Mapcore collaboration. A shit load of us work on Venetian buildings for a month or so, and then slap them all together with a bunch of canals and bridges.

 

Profit.

More like an NDA and a couple of bucks for each of us. Also the optimization would be bad. The terrain in the current map looks decently attractive but the devs could have like used the warehouse from assault, the dam from cs thunder, and so on. They are complete and individually optimized while being contained for the most part. Props for theme idea though

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4 hours ago, FMPONE said:

Even if numbers dwindled quickly they have a bunch of content ready to go, we’ve already heard of a map enclave and I think survival island.

 

While Enclave is probably something they have on the back burner waiting for an event release, survival_island was probably an early title for blacksite or just a test map for this mode. The throw able snowballs are interesting,

 

maybe valve can rapid fire release both a snow and desert map in the coming months to catch up with other BR games that takes half a year to make a map with anew theme, 

 

13 hours ago, Ringel said:

Ghosting is cheating. You get an unfair, unallowed advantage. You do not use a program but you use a human who kinda act like one. 

yeah ghosting is cheating in the same way screen peaking is cheating, except nobody who plays csgo uses the word cheating for anything that isnt program assistance.

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On 12/6/2018 at 11:41 PM, text_fish said:

New plan: Massive CSGO Battle Royale map set in Venice, as part of a huge Mapcore collaboration. A shit load of us work on Venetian buildings for a month or so, and then slap them all together with a bunch of canals and bridges.

 

Profit.

Ah meant to say, as I was chatting with the others while playing: I believe there’s a lot of freedom in themes for this mode, and you don’t need islands. City/part of a city was a first, I was thinking how it would look a post-apocalyptic NYC theme, sort of copying The Division. But other ideas I had just during load times are a peninsula closed on 1-2 side by cliffs, you can have a desert map, a mountain top(!).

If we could figure out a way to collab I’d be interested, as my problem with mapping until now has been creating overall layouts, but small areas I could create.

~

@FMPONE reading here the additional explanation I understand what you meant on Twitter, and I can kinda see what you mean, would be a bit like RTS maps, where everybody knows we’re resources are and rush which depending on play style. Could be interesting. I wonder if they could keep the 5v5 formula on an even smaller map? Would a competitive mode be two teams or a brawl of teams? You could basically have the early elimination aspect of current tournaments in a few rounds on like 3 maps of the official mode was teams of x2 or x3.

~

Not sure if you guys had figured this out, but watching a Warowl video last night I found out that the drones follow the tablet, you can order a delivery and drop the tablet to sneak around whilst someone follows your drone! He loses the 1v1 to someone using that strat

 

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I was thinking about a city map as well, where every skyscraper would have an additional parachute on the roof for those who land there, whilst at ground level you have 2-3 storeys accessible in some buildings. The only problem I can think with that and the Venice idea is that if you sacrifice horizontal play area for vertical play area (which you would probably need to with only 16 players) it might cause bottle-necking at the beginning of the match when everyone has to be able to select a drop point.

A desert theme might be cool, you could even throw a few classic dust elements in to areas of it, and have a large expanse of undulating dunes right in the middle so near the endgame players have to use natural elevation to their advantage.

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1 hour ago, text_fish said:

A desert theme might be cool, you could even throw a few classic dust elements in to areas of it, and have a large expanse of undulating dunes right in the middle so near the endgame players have to use natural elevation to their advantage.

I’m imagining something a-la Spec-Ops The Line, and desert around just to justify not being able to go there, but guess anything can work.

~

@FMPONE had an after thought regarding the potential competitive mode with resources… instead of having it fixed according to the mapper’s design, an in-between solution could be showing on the map at load time where stuff is gonna spawn, so you keep the dynamic aspect of randomisation, but teams can decide what to do from the start.

I feel in such a bigger environment there should be some sort of randomisation, so another solution could be allowing the mapper to set where resources are, but must design it in several configurations that get randomised at the beginning of the round. Think of the classic de_havana where certain paths would be open or closed, just resource spawns would change (and again, indicated on the map at load).

Now use your Valve connections to give us exclusive access to the SDK so we can spin a studio off Mapcore just like early Gearbox did 😄

Edited by blackdog

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Valve used "$reflect3dskybox" 1 instead of "$reflect2dskybox" 1 in island_water_01 material. It is not described by Valve, I discovered it accidentally, ehhh... Now the 3d skybox and env_sun can be reflected by water.

island_water_01:

Spoiler

"Water"
{
    "%compilewater" 1
    "%tooltexture" "dev/water_normal"


    //forceexpensive Must be set to 1 for Portal 2 water reflections to work.
    $forceexpensive 1
    "$abovewater" 1
    "$surfaceprop" "water"
    "$bottommaterial" "dev/dev_waterbeneath2"
//    "$normalmap" "dev/water_normal"
    "$normalmap" "de_nuke/hr_nuke/pool_water_normals_001"

    //Go with the flow!
    $flowmap "hr_massive/island_water_flowmap"
        $flow_normaluvscale 800
        $flow_worlduvscale 1
        $flow_timeintervalinseconds 1             // Amount of time before the change happens
        $flow_uvscrolldistance .5         // Stretch of UV Distance before change over to second set of flow
        $flow_bumpstrength 4
        $flow_timescale 1
        $flow_noise_texture "liquids/water_noise"
    $flow_noise_scale .001
        $flow_debug 0


    // Reflection
    "$reflecttexture" "_rt_WaterReflection"
    "$reflecttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"
    "$reflectskyboxonly" 0
//    "$reflectentities" 1
     "$reflectonlymarkedentities" 1
//    "$reflect2dskybox" 1
    "$reflect3dskybox" 1
    "$reflectamount" "0.9"


    // Refraction
    $refract 1
    "$refracttexture" "_rt_WaterRefraction"
    "$refractamount" "0.8"
    "$refracttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"

    // Fog stuff.
    "$fogenable" 1
    "$fogcolor" "{ 54 76 91 }"
    "$fogstart" -16
    "$fogend" 32
    $lightmapwaterfog 1

    "GPU<2"
    {
        "$fallbackmaterial" "hr_massive/island_water_01_cheap"
    }
}

island_water_01_cheap:

Spoiler

"Water"
{
    "%compilewater" 1
    "%tooltexture" "dev/water_normal"


    //forceexpensive Must be set to 1 for Portal 2 water reflections to work.
//    $forceexpensive 1
    "$abovewater" 1
    "$surfaceprop" "water"
    "$bottommaterial" "dev/dev_waterbeneath2"
    "$normalmap" "de_nuke/hr_nuke/pool_water_normals_001"

    // Reflection
    "$reflecttexture" "tools/toolsblack"
    "$reflecttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"
//    "$reflectskyboxonly" 0
//    "$reflectentities" 1
     "$reflectonlymarkedentities" 1
//    "$reflect2dskybox" 1
//    "$reflect3dskybox" 1
    "$reflectamount" "0.9"


    // Refraction
    $refract 1
    "$refracttexture" "_rt_WaterRefraction"
    "$refractamount" "0.1"
    "$refracttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"


    // Fog stuff.
    "$fogenable" 1
    "$fogcolor" "{ 54 76 91 }"
    "$fogstart" -10
    "$fogend" 15
    $lightmapwaterfog 1

}

island_water_01_skybox:

Spoiler

"Water"
{
    "%compilewater" 1
    "%tooltexture" "dev/water_normal"


    //forceexpensive Must be set to 1 for Portal 2 water reflections to work.
    $forceexpensive 1
    "$abovewater" 1
    "$surfaceprop" "water"
    "$bottommaterial" "dev/dev_waterbeneath2"
    "$normalmap" "de_nuke/hr_nuke/pool_water_normals_001"

    // Reflection
    "$reflecttexture" "_rt_WaterReflection"
    "$reflecttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"
    "$reflectskyboxonly" 0
//    "$reflectentities" 1
     "$reflectonlymarkedentities" 1
    "$reflect2dskybox" 1
//    "$reflect3dskybox" 1
    "$reflectamount" "0.9"


    // Refraction
    $refract 1
    "$refracttexture" "_rt_WaterRefraction"
    "$refractamount" "0.8"
    "$refracttint" "{ 200 200 200 }"


    // Fog stuff.
    "$fogenable" 1
    "$fogcolor" "{ 54 76 91 }"
    "$fogstart" -10
    "$fogend" 15
    $lightmapwaterfog 1

    "GPU<2"
    {
        "$fallbackmaterial" "hr_massive/island_water_01_cheap"
    }
}

Reflections are broken when you don't make a 3d skybox (hollowed cube covered by toolskybox material with sky_camera entity inside). For maps without 3d skybox you must use "$reflect2dskybox" and env_sun will not be reflected.

Edited by Mamorex

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18 hours ago, blackdog said:

I’m imagining something a-la Spec-Ops The Line, and desert around just to justify not being able to go there, but guess anything can work.

~

@FMPONE had an after thought regarding the potential competitive mode with resources… instead of having it fixed according to the mapper’s design, an in-between solution could be showing on the map at load time where stuff is gonna spawn, so you keep the dynamic aspect of randomisation, but teams can decide what to do from the start.

I feel in such a bigger environment there should be some sort of randomisation, so another solution could be allowing the mapper to set where resources are, but must design it in several configurations that get randomised at the beginning of the round. Think of the classic de_havana where certain paths would be open or closed, just resource spawns would change (and again, indicated on the map at load).

Now use your Valve connections to give us exclusive access to the SDK so we can spin a studio off Mapcore just like early Gearbox did 😄

It took me a minute to figure out what you’re saying but I actually really like this idea in theory. You get a minute to plan your tactics but the negative aspects of RNG that I find really tedious are dealt with (not being able to plan anything). Even if you only get one minute to plan your attack, that’s at least skill based compared to being dropped totally blind.

I also really like that the map would still have a ton of variety like it does now, if everything was static you would lose that variety over time. Your idea is far superior to mine in that respect.

Currently, everything is totally random, which means you get a nice sense of looting/discovery from time to time, so maybe not everything needs to be shown before you spawn.

So, a really good suggestion IMO. 

HOWEVER... there is a reason we have the version we have now. I’m guessing that if they ever showed players any kind of weaponry on the map, all the players would drop there, creating a really bad approximation of competitive CS. 

So, probably after testing they realized it had to be fully RNG in order to be fair, and fun.

But if we know anything about fully RNG, it’s that this is the opposite of competitive. So even though I had a lot of fun brainstorming competitive Danger Zone on Twitter, I actually think this will remain a casual game mode into the future. My guess is that the devs are fine with that, because classic CS is competitive enough, and it doesn’t need a rival mode, and a good casual mode is something CS has needed for a long time.

Part of me still wants to see it played competitively though...

As for mapping for the game mode, don’t currently know if it’s possible. It would be cool though 

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    • Post in [decompiled] dz_blacksite
      Alright, I did some testing with the new detail sprites and found out how more specifically how they work. @Mamorex was on the right track but there's a few key things you left out. 

      Removing $alphatest from the material or adding $translucent

      First, the detail sprites material - it's 2 detail sprite sheets side by side, so version A and version B. The different versions have to have same sprite positions and sizes. You only specify version A coordinates in the .vbsp.


      Next up, the detail sprites masks. Red and blue are for wind offset -- so you can have different parts of the sprites sway in the wind differently, you can see Valve isolated some blades of grass for this effect. The green channel is a tint mask and controls how much the sprites are affected by the $worldspacetint. 

      That brings us to the world space textures. They seem to automatically get resized to fit the whole map area, so it you resize the map you'd have to resize the textures too.

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      The world space masks texture uses the red channel to select which version of the sprites to use -- 0 is version A and anything more is version B. 

      The green channel of the texture controls the sprite size -- 127 is default, with darker making the sprites smaller and brighter making the sprites larger. The vmt command $minimumspritesize controls the cutoff point for the sprites, so the sprites smaller than the specified value don't get rendered which can act as a placement mask. 

      I don't know what the blue channel of this texture does, changing it had no effect on the sprites for me. 

       

      All this means sprites still get placed by vbsp on map compile, so they still use displacement alpha for the placement, but the new masks can manipulate sprites size and color after map compile.


       

       
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