Whatever happened to Insurgency Mod

[BaRRaKID 31]

Man I'm almost confusing myself re-reading the above. I am sorry.

That's was my point actually, It's all a big mess, it would be better if we didn't made the separation between a mod and a indie game. By your own definition the only difference is in the distribution of the games (the need to have the game the mod is based on installed), it I start a mod and later a acquire a license to the engine that allows me to distribute the game as a stand-alone product I suddenly stop being a modder to become a indie developer, but the work I'm doing is still the same, so is the game.

It seems that not even wikipedia has a clear definition of what indie games are:

Independent video games (commonly referred to as indie games) are video games created by individuals or small teams without video game publisher financial support. Indie games often focus on innovation and rely on digital distribution.

The problem with this definition is that almost every mod fits in the description of indie, so following this we could say that modding is a sub category of indie development that has it's own subcategories (like total conversion, map pack, add-on, patch, etc).

BTW I hope that it doesn't look as if I'm trying to push a POV, I'm just really enjoying having this discussion

[Puddy 3,089]

Mods can also mean forum moderators

[Rick_D 696]

and mods from the 1960s

what a stupid fucking tangent this thread took

[Erratic 291]

Hey sick, my roof shingles and windows are in there.

[Bluestrike 1]

When I say 'mod' I think 'modification or total conversion of an existing game which is required to play it'. When I say 'indie game' I think 'standalone game that can be enjoyed without relying on any other games being installed'. It can get blurry especially when it comes to Steam, but I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can get hold of the game without having to buy or install any other games it's an independent release.

Exacly how I see it too

[Furyo 360]

Also, mods are free, while indie games are sold (or free, but have another source of income like subscriptions, or micro transactions).

[Sentura 1,595]

...red orchestra, counter strike.

[Evert 174]

Yes and they were also released as stand alone thus turned into something else then a mod

[Sentura 1,595]

but... but... sauce engine

[Furyo 360]

RO, CS and DoD are the typical examples of mods ceasing to be mods by having a retail release. I know you were around back then, remember the endless rants from pissed off players that now had to shell out some dough for the game, and how the mod teams had sold out? Valve even gave you the game for free if you already had it on Steam...

[Sentura 1,595]

i was just pointing out that mods don't stop being mods even if they get to be retail. mods are modifications of an engine, indie games are from scratch (commercial or not).

[Skjalg 348]

luls, stop arguing semantics sentura and just accept what people are telling you for a change.

If you modify something enough, a game, a car, whatever it is, once you've modified it enough it turns into something of its own, and what started out as a mod is now its own product, and not the first product with a modification anymore. There is a clear distinction there.

I know how hard it is for you to ever be slightly wrong about something, but as usual you're just coming off as someone who wants to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Furyo 360]

Yeah I really don't see it that way. Mods end being mods when the team working on them gets picked up by a studio and paid to work on a retail release. It becomes a commercial game, and no longer a mod. Because by your definition every single game that uses an engine not made for it in the first place is a mod. So every single FPS since Quake, Far Cry and Unreal basically.

Indie games are indeed from scratch, that differentiates them from mods.

[Sentura 1,595]

i was actually thinking of that after posting, furyo. but those engines are being heavily modified in order to bring about something new, so it's hardly the same engine as before. it's sort of like the distinction between expansions and sequels - where do you draw the line between them? how much needs to change from a game becoming an expansion (or dlc, i guess that's the new expansion) to becoming a sequel? new mechanics? engine changes? better graphics?

skjalg: how am i acting differently from anyone else, none of whom want to accept anything i say for instance? i'm just arguing semantics because the topic was on semantics.

[Furyo 360]

On the subject of DLC vs sequel, the line is drawn at the size of the addition and its retail price. Consequently its release date too.