Journey

[Puddy 3,089]

I haven't watched this too closely. All I know is that flower is pretty boring and that flow wasn't much better.

Who knows? Perhaps they'll nail it this time around.

prisoner's dilemma? isn't this what kane and lynch multiplayer was all about? i have a problem with originality when people mask something that has been done before as something new.

it's not prisoner's dilemma btw; it's backstabbing

[Sentura 1,595]

I haven't watched this too closely. All I know is that flower is pretty boring and that flow wasn't much better.

Who knows? Perhaps they'll nail it this time around.

prisoner's dilemma? isn't this what kane and lynch multiplayer was all about? i have a problem with originality when people mask something that has been done before as something new.

it's not prisoner's dilemma btw; it's backstabbing

...yeah, that's what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

[Evert 173]

Trollcore.

Flower is awesome

[┌HP┘ 9,757]

One thing is for sure... at least these guys are trying new shit, on a saturated industry such as ours, can you blame them for that?

[Campaignjunkie 41]

Trollcore.

Yep.

Sentura, I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but... they've gone to great lengths to avoid the prisoner's dilemma. The only resource to collect, "cloth," is unlimited and you spend it regularly to boost jump. There's no dilemma over resources. It's just whether you and a person get along, and whether you trust them enough to stay with them -- e.g. they start shouting a lot but you're thinking "no the level exit is over here" and walk away / disconnect, when really they just wanted to show you a cool level secret and you didn't trust them.

But at the same time, there's no penalty for disconnecting. You just walk off and jump away and you'll never see them again. No punishment.

[Taylor 774]

It’s not a game I see with any hostile mechanics, certainly not backstabbing. The shtick seems to be cooperating with someone who you cannot communicate with like Demon’s Souls. Only instead of stabbing up a dragon together you solve abstract puzzles. I’m sure it'll be worth the money and a play.

[Sentura 1,595]

Trollcore.

Yep.

Sentura, I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but... they've gone to great lengths to avoid the prisoner's dilemma. The only resource to collect, "cloth," is unlimited and you spend it regularly to boost jump. There's no dilemma over resources. It's just whether you and a person get along, and whether you trust them enough to stay with them -- e.g. they start shouting a lot but you're thinking "no the level exit is over here" and walk away / disconnect, when really they just wanted to show you a cool level secret and you didn't trust them.

But at the same time, there's no penalty for disconnecting. You just walk off and jump away and you'll never see them again. No punishment.

but again... what are you supposed to do? is it going to be puzzles like little big planet did them? lbp, while having an option to communicate verbally, this was seldom used in favor of gestures like pointing or even dragging other players to specific spots to understand - again, this is hardly original. my biggest gripe with games like this is what i said in my last post: they try to market something they've made as unique, even though there have been instances of it before. and that is perhaps the thing: there isn't any or at least not much left of originality in this industry, so i'd rather go out of my way to praise the games that truly deserve it for their innovation, rather than having some hipsters think up some "web 2.0" version of a game.

i don't understand why everyone is so eager to always jump the gun and get on the hype bandwagon every time there's a title out that poses itself as unique. it was the same thing with the cinematic dead island trailer. i'm not saying the game will be bad either, but i want to see just how "special" and "unique" this game becomes when it's out. running around in a beautiful environment alone does not make for a good game.

[Rick_D 696]

it depends what people want out of a game. i would love a game where just exploring beautiful environments is the main thing.

for me, i enjoy all kinds of games. i just played a series of pretty bad games by many standards but i had an enjoyable time. why must everything be art, or be the next big innovation?

[Puddy 3,089]

...yeah, that's what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

The prisoner's dilemma is a fundamental problem in game theory that demonstrates why two people might not cooperate even if it is in both their best interests to do so.

It's not in your best interest to co-operate in K&L. You're incentives are changed as the goal is to win (make the most money if I'm not mistaken).

If you cooperate, you will end up equal (not good). Your objective is to, exclusively, possess the most amount of money (translates into exclusively having the lowest jail sentence in the PD example).

Or so my feeble mind puzzles it together

[Sentura 1,595]

it depends what people want out of a game. i would love a game where just exploring beautiful environments is the main thing.

for me, i enjoy all kinds of games. i just played a series of pretty bad games by many standards but i had an enjoyable time. why must everything be art, or be the next big innovation?

you're misunderstanding, i'm not saying everything should be the next big thing, i'm just saying it shouldn't be marketed as such.

(because you know, that's pretentious)

[Furyo 360]

You know what happens when something isn't marketed like the next big thing?

Mini Ninjas (first example to come to mind)

then layoffs.

Or when you hit a bad patch: Pure, then Split/Second

then layoffs.

then studio closure.

[FrieChamp 1,472]

I've been seriously trying to wrap my head around your train of thought, Sentura, but when you started comparing Journey to Dead Island, I couldn't help but start to believe that you're taking the piss.

[Sentura 1,595]

not to dead island, just the first trailer that everyone was so hooked on. a cinematic trailer doesn't say anything about the game, yet everyone kept raving about it. sure it might get good marketing at the time, but by now everyone seems to have forgotten, or the released gameplay may not be up to par with the initial hype. in general i think the industry suffers from overhyping, since publishers seem to think that hype = sales. i'm not gonna go more into this though, since i don't know anything about it.

i think furyo may have had the only valid counter argument, though i doubt these guys are out to score the big bucks with this.

[Sentura 1,595]

...yeah, that's what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

The prisoner's dilemma is a fundamental problem in game theory that demonstrates why two people might not cooperate even if it is in both their best interests to do so.

It's not in your best interest to co-operate in K&L. You're incentives are changed as the goal is to win (make the most money if I'm not mistaken).

If you cooperate, you will end up equal (not good). Your objective is to, exclusively, possess the most amount of money (translates into exclusively having the lowest jail sentence in the PD example).

Or so my feeble mind puzzles it together

fair enough, it was just to give an example anyway.

[Taylor 774]

you're misunderstanding, i'm not saying everything should be the next big thing, i'm just saying it shouldn't be marketed as such.

I can just imagine Jenova coming out and saying “hey, this is fl0w. It’s like Snake only it has inaccurate six-axis controls, none of that tricky collision stuff, and no objective.” They're entirely about marketing themselves as the next step in games. Ex: Chen: Designers Of Online Games 'Often Do Lazy Work'. Though, more power to them. And he does avoid stepping on any toes (unlike ToT).