Question on prototyping in UE3 with streamed levels

[Serenius]

For those out there who use Unreal 3, when you are prototyping a new level that will require multiple streamed levels, which approach do you take?

A) Prototype out the whole level and split up BSP, navigation points, and scripting into seperate levels once complete

B) Prototype out all major BSP and break up into streamed levels prior to adding in scripting

C) Build each area separately, adding streamed levels for new areas as you go

If you follow the first method, how do you avoid moving your in-game objects that are tied to Kismet events without breaking the connection?

[KungFuSquirrel]

It's been a couple years since I've been in UE3, but if I'm remembering correctly the move was best handled by 1) copying the objects to the streaming level, 2) cut/paste the kismet to the streaming level (which will then find the same objects from the original level), and 3) delete the original objects.

I'd recommend somewhere in the realm of B and C, though; things can get complicated real fast if you try to hack it up later. Depending on what you're using and how, you might also be able to alleviate some annoyance by keeping some of your scripting/script-relevant objects in the persistent level or a dedicated scripting sublevel separate from the geometry. Your mileage may vary, but I do recommend trying to plan for it to whatever extent is possible as early as possible to avoid stress later.

[Serenius]

Thanks, man! I've been using method A so far, and am a little over halfway through adding in all the scripting. I'll start working on breaking it up into different streamed levels before proceeding further.

This might take awhile.

[2d-chris]

If your the only person working on this stuff it shouldn't make much of a difference what you do, but from my experience I'd get the structure nailed before you go to deep into scripting each section. With all scripting a good rule to follow is try to keep the amount of dependencies down, so your kismet should ideally have only a few inputs/outputs per area.

Of course I have no idea what your doing with stuff like back gates, if each area is only one way it should be a piece of cake

I find the hardest part designing streaming into levels is the visual elements, planning carefully so giant chunks don't go invisible and so that you give plenty of time for everything to actually stream because it's not as fast as you'd think.

[Serenius]

The BSP was the first thing built. The level is a giant outdoor urban area, with a few interior environments. Outside, it's a split-level street (cars travel through a sunken street and pedestrians can travel along an elevated sidewalk and bridges over the streets).

The big challenge is going to be optimizing once the art pass is done. There are long sight lines down each street, spanning up to 3 city blocks (almost 7500 UU per block) that will potentially be murder on the hardware. This could be gotten around by having giant fallen buildings blocking sight lines, but that would also prevent seeing some major landmarks that will aid in navigation.

The only thing I can see working will just be some very granular streaming control, and finding some creative ways of placing unobtrusive back gates (the easiest of which is jumping off the side of a low-height object that can't be climbed on/mantled over).

Overall, Kismet scripting is really easy. The only challenge comes in when the AI doesn't do what it should (like not run away), which requires a lot of pathnode toggling to correct.

[KungFuSquirrel]

I realize this may be a little late to suggest it, but why limit yourself to a grid of streets? Even just taking a chunk of the layout and pushing it over at a 1:2 slope might help give you some of the visual doglegging you need. I don't know how deep it is, but what if you had a ruined chunk of elevated walkway that required you to go into a building and down into the street section, which could be a dark, claustrophobic mess of wrecked cars and debris and give you much more controlled sight lines - consider also the read of seeing a landmark/eventual destination poking up in the opening above the street, between the walkways. And of course the entrance and exit to that lower level provides a pair of very natural streaming transitions

[Serenius]

I'm not quite sure I follow what you are saying, KFS.

Here is a shot of the starting viewpoint. The total distance to that back building behind the monument is roughly 25k UU. Most of the action takes place down at street level, where there are a few opportunities of getting to the walkway.

[KungFuSquirrel]

ah, I'm dumb, I was misreading the layout (hey look at all those really obvious assets placed in the street. ) I was for some reason picturing you spending more time on top and crossing over the street. Completely off base, then, don't mind me

(but I think the angled road suggestion might still help things a bit )

[Serenius]

hey look at all those really obvious assets placed in the street.

Oh hell. Is it because cars are placed perpendicular to the flow of traffic?

Got what you mean by angled roads now.

[KungFuSquirrel]

hey look at all those really obvious assets placed in the street.

Oh hell. Is it because cars are placed perpendicular to the flow of traffic?

Got what you mean by angled roads now.

Oh, no, no, that wasn't a comment on that - when I looked at the top-down, I completely missed the cluster of assets that should have made it clear to me that you were using the street and not the elevated side walkways