What have you watched recently?

[cincinnati]

i think it's more accurate to say that genetic disposition has a big hand in how those things are processed and dealt with on an individual basis.

And was also genetic disposition to put a gun in the hands of the guy?

My post was about mental illness, not american gun laws.

[blackdog]

My post was about mental illness, not american gun laws.

Yes, but it seems the social side of the story is overlooked: blaming the illness is conceding to one self responsabilities. We have psychiatric cases in Europe too (actually I do service in a psychiatric clinic where the patients work in a protected environment) and when was the last time you heard about a shooting or even a beating, in schools: i don't remember any.

[Skjalg]

because mental issues are created from the environment. it's not like mental issues are all created at birth and then suddenly just triggering, most disorders happen through social interaction, through traumas or other issues that in the end force the person in question out to the fringes.

you blame him for having mental issues, but you don't see what could have evoked those issues in the first place.

Sentura, when did you get your psych degree? I'd love to see your sources on this.

[Sentura]

because mental issues are created from the environment. it's not like mental issues are all created at birth and then suddenly just triggering, most disorders happen through social interaction, through traumas or other issues that in the end force the person in question out to the fringes.

you blame him for having mental issues, but you don't see what could have evoked those issues in the first place.

Sentura, when did you get your psych degree? I'd love to see your sources on this.

i already posted my sources in one of my other posts Skjalg. it was actually specifically posted for you because you're always such a skeptic towards the blatantly obvious.

[⌐■_■]

how can you possibly link this to the failings of the american educational system? i'm sure there a many, but there's still way too little details about the killing around to start trashing the american educational system?

srsly Sentura

Sentura srsly

Sentura

also: holy shit 20 kids got killed...

my gf showed me this quote from Morgan Freeman btw, which is pretty spot on if you ask me. you should probably also read it in his voice:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed

people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

Edited December 17, 2012 by killertomato

[syver]

^

[Sentura]

first off, i said the environment, and by the educational system i also mean the environment that is going on in the educational system. let's face it, the guy probably wasn't the top jock and quarterback for the school's football team. he probably got bullied and his life was most likely miserable in that regard. i consider that in equal part to be the fault of the educational system.

i think you're right in what you quoted, that definitely speaks of what is going on in the media, but it's not the entire picture. you're still not looking at what causes a person to that far down the road. i mean to even consider the option "to go out with a bang" you have to be pretty suicidal in the first place.

[blackdog]

how can you possibly link this to the failings of the american educational system?

So what it is in your opinion?

Great quote from Mr. Freeman, thanks for sharing.

[⌐■_■]

no problem bro.

hard to say, but i think this incidient might be specificly menthal health related (and i am personally convinced this specific mental condition would be of a genetic nature). still though, hard to wrap your head around something like this...

and this might be a little morbid but i hope his brain is still ''researchable'' to learn more about dangerous mental health desseases and what causes the genetic mutations in peoples brains. there's still so much we don't know about this..

as far as social factors go, there is of course the nature vs nurture discussion just waiting to be lit. imho both factors have contributed to this horrible killing but the extremity of the incident compels me to believe that this was not initially caused by his social environment. it might be a bitter conclusion but i guess the mother of the killer carried most responsibillity theoretically because she was most likely in the best position to see the signals of his illness. on the other hand I don't suppose most mothers are anticipating their own son murdering them...

with my convictions regarding this killing it's hard to blame anyone, really.

Edited December 17, 2012 by killertomato

[cincinnati]

morgan freeman did not write that.

[⌐■_■]

damn, just read about it. doesn't make the point any less valid tho, imo.

[Skjalg]

I dont think it is the educational system, because bullies exist in all countries and this shit almost only happens in america.

You have no idea how the educational system works in the US, Sentura, you've probably not even spent more than a month in the US combined, let alone any days inside any of their educational systems. You are, and I quote, "blindly blaming some or other scapegoat" when you blame the educational system or his (again, you have no idea how this guy was brought up or what his surroundings were like) environment. cant you see what a hypocrite this makes you?

Also, as a side note, you do in this discussion as you always do and start changing up what you mean saying "by x I also mean y" translating to; you are trying to persuade us that you have been right from the get go, even though x is clearly wrong but as long as it means y you are on solid ground. But it's very easy to see that x is not y. Educational system is not the same as the environment, and if you really meant the environment from the start, why did you write educational system (which encompasses so much more than one individuals environment?).

if it really is as you say that this guy was bullied, or somehow changed by his environment, how do you know for sure that it wasn't at soccer practice and not the educational system that he was bullied. Or at the bakery when buying bread by the bakers son?

What I'm getting at is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Stop being a hypocrite and listen to your own words.

[Sentura]

nice assumptions there Skjalg. really, what the fuck are you trying to do here? prove me wrong based on that you don't think I've been to the US for "more than a month" or something equally irrelevant? Resources are available everywhere about the school system and the environment, it's just about taking the time to read them. besides that, if you had checked the source i put up, you'd notice there's much to be said about the environment and what causes these things. you'd have to be retarded to think that these things only happen in the US. people are suicidal everywhere, and i remember at least one particular case in finland where a guy "went out with a bang". the whole world suffers from the problem, the root cause is because people are feeling suicidal and either want to be remembered or not die alone. it's not rocket science to figure shit like this out.

on your side note, i do it because i realize people like you are getting the wrong idea, so i have to correct myself to make you understand what my original intention was.

stop trying to crusade your bullshit belief about me being a hypocrite and focus on the issue at hand instead. 22 children died and you're the most worried about correcting my morals? what the fuck is wrong with you?

Edited December 17, 2012 by Sentura

[PogoP]

Yeah Skjalg, you need to be flying out to America to console the families, or inventing that time machine to stop this incident from ever occurring. Why the fuck are you discussing shit? JEEEEEEEZ.

[syver]

I dont think it is the educational system, because bullies exist in all countries and this shit almost only happens in america.

You have no idea how the educational system works in the US, Sentura, you've probably not even spent more than a month in the US combined, let alone any days inside any of their educational systems. You are, and I quote, "blindly blaming some or other scapegoat" when you blame the educational system or his (again, you have no idea how this guy was brought up or what his surroundings were like) environment. cant you see what a hypocrite this makes you?

Also, as a side note, you do in this discussion as you always do and start changing up what you mean saying "by x I also mean y" translating to; you are trying to persuade us that you have been right from the get go, even though x is clearly wrong but as long as it means y you are on solid ground. But it's very easy to see that x is not y. Educational system is not the same as the environment, and if you really meant the environment from the start, why did you write educational system (which encompasses so much more than one individuals environment?).

if it really is as you say that this guy was bullied, or somehow changed by his environment, how do you know for sure that it wasn't at soccer practice and not the educational system that he was bullied. Or at the bakery when buying bread by the bakers son?

What I'm getting at is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Stop being a hypocrite and listen to your own words.

nice assumptions there Skjalg. really, what the fuck are you trying to do here? prove me wrong based on that you don't think I've been to the US for "more than a month" or something equally irrelevant? Resources are available everywhere about the school system and the environment, it's just about taking the time to read them. besides that, if you had checked the source i put up, you'd notice there's much to be said about the environment and what causes these things. you'd have to be retarded to think that these things only happen in the US. people are suicidal everywhere, and i remember at least one particular case in finland where a guy "went out with a bang". the whole world suffers from the problem, the root cause is because people are feeling suicidal and either want to be remembered or not die alone. it's not rocket science to figure shit like this out.

on your side note, i do it because i realize people like you are getting the wrong idea, so i have to correct myself to make you understand what my original intention was.

stop trying to crusade your bullshit belief about me being a hypocrite and focus on the issue at hand instead. 22 children died and you're the most worried about correcting my morals? what the fuck is wrong with you?