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skdr

Battlefield 3

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The theater / distributor analogy is a bit dubious since they involve distinct external locations to consumers homes. With Origin vs. Steam etc. it's not exactly the same because you can get them all on the same system. The fact that they are different pieces of software running on a system is definitely valid, but again that isn't quite apples to apples with comparing to the film distribution / studio model. But whatever that's just one facet of this.

Otherwise, I was under the assumption that with the announcement of Origin, EA was planning to (attempt to) exclude all its PC product from Steam eventually. We'll see how it goes.

Meanwhile back on BF3 mod tools, sounds like a nightmare. I still long for the days of the goldsource mapping which I believe was a topic of another thread. :derp:

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fair enough, i'll agree that my 'correction' doesn't hold water either. my intention was first and foremost to demonstrate why the analogy was wrong (because it would be misinterpreting what this frustration is about) .

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like amazon.com and play.com?

brave new world ladies, ride the wave.

i see your point and i can understand why you argue in favor of the game and hold that very high. BUT, the analogy here doesn't work: Amazon and Play deliver packaged good that I open in my doorway, brought to me by the same postal guy and put in the same flat. With orion I'm forced to open a second door, I didn't need because I had Steam installed already.

Also: Unlike the Postal guy leaving when he delivered his package, these Apps are there to stay. If the postal dude would ask to stay he'd need to gain trust. Steam gained that trust over years of delivering or trying what is best for the consumer. Orion as it looks right now has mainly EAs marketing Bullshitters in mind and from EAs history there's not much too expect when it comes to supporting the customer.

What I think is the motivation here is (ab)using Battlefield 3 as the same puller that Half-Life 2 was for Steam. And as much as I want Battlefield 3 to be successfull for DICE and knowing how much hard work you will have put into it also for you, for my own, egoistic, lazy customer concerns I hope that EA fails terribly and the move will backlash. I understand EA seeks ways to maximize profit and that isn't wrong for a company, but it is wrong when it comes forced and doesn't fulfill the market's needs. Other companies (such as Epic with the Unreal Engine) go fine by utilizing middleware where own solutions rather block then advance the own growth.

I'm offended by GameSpy and Games for Windows Live running on my machine, offended by the necessity of updating PunkBuster manually. I have a company that provides more than all these tools ever did for me (mainly stopping me from playing the game) at a reasonable price for the developers and publishers and with a great interface for me. As much as I expect a game developer to keep me as the gamer in mind when it comes to Gamedesign decisions and Hardware specifications, I expect them (or us, as I'm part of that evil biomass myself) to keep the players in mind when it comes to how to reach them on the open market.

Change isn't bad and a good competitor is always great for the consumers, but Origin is not (in it's current state) a competitor, it's just a barrier. If anyone from EA reads this, I hope I was reasonable in my arguments, but please (edited here) allow me to purchase my game on steam and not install secondary DRM software.

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I got Arma2 for free from Green Man Gaming the other day, and then didn't bother downloading and installing it because I needed to install their client to do so. I tried impulse once, and never went back to it.

I'm fine with rival DD platforms, but not with additional programs I need to run for them. With Origin, EA wants to be Valve. They want that always running client. I'm not even that ok with Steam always running, because it's a pretty crappy program at times, but all the friends I've got on it manage to salvage it, as well as the friend-related features like being able to right click - join your friends. So I, and I've got the impression basically every other PC gamer, is tapped out with steam. If Origin was a website, not an installed application, that would be acceptable. But having to install more crap that I need to run to play my games is a very annoying prospect.

The analogy is not wrong

if warner bros had their own exclusive theatres or some warner-specific device to play their movies then your analogy would be correct. whether warner bros or some other company publishes a movie doesn't affect me in any way. this is about convenience.

They used to have dedicated movie theaters, that would only play that studio's films. It was outlawed as un-competitive. :3

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like amazon.com and play.com?

brave new world ladies, ride the wave.

i see your point and i can understand why you argue in favor of the game and hold that very high. BUT, the analogy here doesn't work: Amazon and Play deliver packaged good that I open in my doorway, brought to me by the same postal guy and put in the same flat. With orion I'm forced to open a second door, I didn't need because I had Steam installed already.

i'll stop you right there, with amazon and play you need to launch separate browser windows. on the same pc.

even with your quite odd analogy (it would be like focusing on the server setup origin and steam used to make an argument, you're looking at it from the wrong end) you are still in the same house, it's not like you have had to walk halfway across town to pick up your parcels.

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like amazon.com and play.com?

brave new world ladies, ride the wave.

i see your point and i can understand why you argue in favor of the game and hold that very high. BUT, the analogy here doesn't work: Amazon and Play deliver packaged good that I open in my doorway, brought to me by the same postal guy and put in the same flat. With orion I'm forced to open a second door, I didn't need because I had Steam installed already.

i'll stop you right there, with amazon and play you need to launch separate browser windows. on the same pc.

even with your quite odd analogy (it would be like focusing on the server setup origin and steam used to make an argument, you're looking at it from the wrong end) you are still in the same house, it's not like you have had to walk halfway across town to pick up your parcels.

right, it's a broswer windows with no additional installs. if they want origin to be just a browser window where i have to type my key once, i'd be ok with it, but the way origin works is to permanently install an application i don't want to use on my machine. like getting a second postbox for a different deliverer service.

for the record, i edited the last sentence in my post above to something more friendly.

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To begin and analogy does not need to match up on every exact detail, in fact it can't, my point was and still is that forcing someone to use a competitors services for convenience sake is amoral, as is bashing one company for something you praise another for.

These reasons posted against Origin should be used against steam. At this point steam is a lot more intrusive then Origin or any other DRM system. There is no other system that forces you to start an app of this size and that takes so long as steam, it's unbelievable people can even consider steam not to be a DRM system. Origin just requires you to install and verify the game once, which is a lot handier, and if it means that EA will get 30% more on every purchase, I'll use it over steam, and any like minded app from other publishers.

Steam famboyims essential allows Gabe to jack up royalties as he can just point out how many people will not buy your game if it's not on his network. It's ridiculous and damaging to PC gaming. And even more so since a lot of you are dev's yourself, you are shooting yourself's in the foot.

Still I did suggest a compromise, you pay 30% extra on steam for what you pay on Origin, I think that would be fair, you want convenience, you should pay for it, like in every other aspect of the economy.

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that forcing someone to use a competitors services for convenience sake is amoral,

The community can't and won't force anyone.

These reasons posted against Origin should be used against steam.

they are, but it's always a compromise between what you get and what you give. And so far steam has given a lot of value to the games I play (better matchmaking, no additional anti-cheat or registration software, updates automated, friend list and achievement tracking, special offers and cross services between games (like hats for indie games) and platforms (crossplay with ps3!)) while not doing the same mistakes orion does (purchasing in the EU is often not possible, only EAs catalogue (obviously)).

At this point steam is a lot more intrusive then Origin or any other DRM system.

background? facts? did you ever try uninstalling starforce and getting your registry clean again?

There is no other system that forces you to start an app of this size and that takes so long as steam,

never had any performence problems, but yes, that is a trouble. given the hazzle of non-steamworks games (i'm mixing stuff up here, i'm aware) patching manually and then logging into another online service (like gamespy) takes just as long though.

it's unbelievable people can even consider steam not to be a DRM system.

it is a DRM service and people are aware of it. Difference being that Steam doesn't ask for anything but your log in and then provides the same service where ever and when ever you want it. No "only 5 installations", no "6 months download warranty", no "you have a virtual drive software and therefore fuck of".

Origin just requires you to install and verify the game once, which is a lot handier,

i might not get your point, but any other installer installs the game once as well and registers it to your account once as well. what is the point?

and if it means that EA will get 30% more on every purchase, I'll use it over steam, and any like minded app from other publishers.

i'd rather have each developer open it's own service for that reason. I don't see the point why EA needs another 30%. If it means that EA will more likely support inovative games, go for it. If it means the CEO of EA Sports gets to drive three new sportscars but the devs are still crunching for the yearly FIFA with no new ideas, fuck it.

Steam famboyims essential allows Gabe to jack up royalties as he can just point out how many people will not buy your game if it's not on his network.

BS. The market for PC games is wide open and as soon as Valve would raise royalties the devs would go to another marketplace and the community would follow. If you read todays GameDev.biz you'll find one of the many Indie Devs who keeps saying that Valve's fair methods and ongoing support is one of the major reasons why they are still around and so successfully. (link http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... ers-mode-7)

It's ridiculous and damaging to PC gaming. And even more so since a lot of you are dev's yourself, you are shooting yourself's in the foot.

the exact same thing was mentioned by stardock's CEO a few weeks ago. massive backslash from the Indie Scene again: the reason why Valve is so succesfull with Steam is that they work with the Devs and the community.

Still I did suggest a compromise, you pay 30% extra on steam for what you pay on Origin, I think that would be fair, you want convenience, you should pay for it, like in every other aspect of the economy.

If that means EA will cut 30% off the prizes first, because obviously they don't have to pay royalities to them selves, go for it.

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Steam's not perfect. Anyone who's ever got disconnected from a l4d game due to the "No steam login" bug will attest to that. But what it gives back, and that, having been the only game in town for years, we've all put hundreds of dollars into it for a game list that is non-transferable to some new competitive program, and all the friend lists, groups, achievements, and history PC gamers have put into Steam, is it REALLY that surprising that people choose "Stick with the established thing we've invested a lot into" vs "This new competitor that so far only seems to offer 'me too'"? I'm willing to buy a game from EA, if they want, and offer a good, speedbump-free service, like Gamersgate and GOG manage. I'm not willing to run Origin, based on what I've read about it.

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The way I look at it, Origin has a LONG way to go before it can rival the back catalog of Steam and have all of its features, which would precisely be the tipping point where I would be willing to choose Origin over Steam. I will NOT run two of these programs at the same time on my PC, one is enough and demands enough resources as it is. The community is on Steam, my friends are on Steam, and that's that.

Also, Activision and Ubi will soon be launching their own platform, and then where exactly the fuck is the limit? Yeah they all want to keep their 30% in house. Guess what? They should have been the market leaders for once and invest heavily in "online" back in 2003.

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