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Sentura

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How is there little feedback when moving or attacking? each weapon type has different animations, you can actually feel the weight of a giant sword the way you swing at enemies.

And wearing heavy armor without enough endurance makes you slow and fat roll.

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The bosses I experienced weren't challenging and became more a question of where to roll in order to kill them off

I'm gonna assume you haven't killed capra demon yet. Which also means you're in the beginning of the game and have seen very little of it. Yes it does get better later imo.

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The game's comment system feels like trying to band aid over bad design decisions.

The messaging system and blood stains are there to show you there are other people suffering as much as you, so you won't get discouraged. And for occasional help or trolling. It's a big part of the game.

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 For instance the boss battle on the bridge where you have archers hitting you in the back. You can immediately go kill off the archers technically, but the ladder is completely hidden from view when you enter the level.

The game wants you to explore the world, it won't throw anything into your face other than enemies and environmental hazards. It's why it's called prepare to die. Some people enjoy it, others don't.

 

I guess I'm one of those people, because dark souls for me is one of the greatest games I've played in recent years. There's zero hand holding and I wish more games incorporated similar multiplayer mechanics(single player - but not quite).

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On 5/1/2016 at 8:30 AM, 0kelvin said:

Just replayed F.E.A.R. It's a combination of Max Payne with an asian horror movie. There are just two minor bad points: the horror factor is non interactive, meaning that the player doesn't interact in any way with Alma, the little girl who is killing everyone; the second complain is that there is too much repetition, the same environments were overused in very long levels.

After finishing F.E.A.R. I played Project Origin for the first time. Too bad that they changed the whole direction of the game. The whole atmosphere that made F.E.A.R. 1 terrific is gone, The graphics are better in terms of resolution, colors, bloom, HDR, but they sacrificed the realtime shadows everywhere. The environments are larger, with a greater cinematic feel, but they had to compromise the shadows and the flickering lights, which dumbed down the thriller atmosphere of the first game. I tend to agree with all the criticism about F.E.A.R. 2 being "consolized". Smashing button in QTE, lack of voicemails and the interface seems to be gamepad oriented.

Overall I think that the main flaw of F.E.A.R. is that it wasn't designed with a series in mind, there isn't much room for expanding it after the first game.

If you enjoyed the original fear, definitely give Condemned a go.

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1 hour ago, (HP) said:

If you enjoyed the original fear, definitely give Condemned a go.

I got that as launch title for the Xbox 360 but I returned it. I couldn't see shit most of the time and that got annoying really fast. 

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5 hours ago, tomm said:

How is there little feedback when moving or attacking? each weapon type has different animations, you can actually feel the weight of a giant sword the way you swing at enemies.

I never tried a giant sword, but the one handed swords alone already felt like you were swinging a giant sword. Or maybe closer to a giant unweighted brick. Animations are winding up with a ridiculous slow speed, which made me second guess myself whether I did an attack sometimes, and even the lightest attack is unrealistically heavy. Sometimes (most of the time really) I wouldn't get a kick when inputting the exact motion for one. That's not good feedback. Compared to Street Fighter, a game that seeks to achieve some of the same elements in its combat, it falls so much shorter.

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And wearing heavy armor without enough endurance makes you slow and fat roll.I'm gonna assume you haven't killed capra demon yet. Which also means you're in the beginning of the game and have seen very little of it. Yes it does get better later imo.

Maybe it does, but I'm not going through 8 hours of boredom just to have a few hours of fun.

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The messaging system and blood stains are there to show you there are other people suffering as much as you, so you won't get discouraged. And for occasional help or trolling. It's a big part of the game.

Cool interpretation, but still doesn't make it more than a band aid over broken design.

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The game wants you to explore the world, it won't throw anything into your face other than enemies and environmental hazards.

If you cared to read the link I posted, it actually rebuts this argument beautifully (among many others): https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/stubbleman/what-the-hell-is-so-great-about-dark-souls-anyway--240010.phtml

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It's why it's called prepare to die. Some people enjoy it, others don't.

I guess I'm one of those people, because dark souls for me is one of the greatest games I've played in recent years. There's zero hand holding and I wish more games incorporated similar multiplayer mechanics(single player - but not quite).

Zero hand holding doesn't mean it has be bad design, which is the case in Dark Souls. I would still refer to the article I posted because it does well in explaining how its predecessor actually seemed to have better design incorporated while sticking to the exact same concept.

Edited by Sentura

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2 hours ago, Sentura said:

stuff

I just read the article and it basically says that demon's souls is better than dark souls, and he's probably right.

Same goes for dks2 and 3, I personally think the third one was the weakest of the series.

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Ive played all of the souls/bloodborne games and dark souls is neither better or worse than demon souls. They both have areas that supersede the other. I would argue that over all dark souls is a better game though due to having more variety in its gameplay due to the wider selection of weapons and items. Demon souls was far easier to cheese as well. The souls games are games that expect you to progress through trial and error and have very consistent rules, always watch behind you and every step forward is a possible threat. Once you acknowledge that and progress carefully you will learn areas and how to approach them.

Combat is actually very predictable, you just need to ensure you can actual wield a weapon correctly. Its collision based combat means the combat plays out exactly as you should expected, they use fantasy established weaknesses for different enemy types that means even from a western based background you can understand what is weak to what.

Honestly its one of the most entertaining games in years. I must have put 500-600 hours into the series.

 

Read some of that review and it smacks of someone that struggled with an approachable game if you take a step back for a second and think. 

Edited by Vilham

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I started playing Deus Ex recently, with a overhaul mod called "Give Me Deus Ex" or GMDX that adds some changes to the maps, skill system, better AI that can do shit like throw grenades and flares, etc. Deus Ex is better than literally every single other game in existence, so this is fun. ^_^

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There's certainly no accounting for taste, but what strikes me from that review are arguments like these:

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The thing about Demon's Souls that's so great is that it's hard, but it's hard without resorting to lame, half-hearted gimmicks. The difficulty mostly comes from learning how to finesse your way through the combat. If you can get good at the combat, then you're not likely to have much trouble getting through the game, with the exception of the odd environmental hazard here and there, and a few enemy types. The game is very rarely cheap. If anything, the game has a much greater propensity for letting you lame your way around its challenges than the other way around. 

 

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Having your game be hard is a difficult trick to pull off because most generally, people only react well to fair challenges, not cheap garbage, and the open world is one of many ways that Dark Souls is cheap garbage, as opposed to being genuinely difficult. 

Generally the cheapness, "trolls" or what have you I would consider to be bad design. It's not enough to be aware of your surroundings, some things you will not be able to get around unless you've played the game through once. For instance the dragon that spews fire on the bridge in the undead burg. Maybe it's just me but I fail to see how that's anything but a gimmick. I wouldn't exactly call it approachable either, but maybe that's just me.

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It only serves to artificially pad out the length of the game by making you backtrack all the way back to Firelink from the first bell tower, and then back to Firelink again from the second bell tower. Now think about that for a minute. How much backtracking is there between Quelaag and Firelink? Is that a fun round trip to make the first time? The answers to those questions are 'way the fuck more than there should be' and 'absolutely not.' 

Although I didn't make it far enough to talk about this, it certainly seems to be valid point as well. I certainly wouldn't want to have spent 8+ hours of getting to the first bell just so I could "have fun" going all the way back. It speaks to the grind aspect of the game I mentioned earlier as well, but I guess world of warcraft could never have taken off if people didn't thoroughly enjoy grinding.

Speaking of the combat: It may be predictable on a larger scale as you would assume from a system that only allows 4-6 different inputs, but that isn't the problem with combat. The problem is the physics based animations and button inputs are temperamental and that animations in general feel sluggish. I get that the developers wanted me not to trust the game. I'm on board with that. Even with some of the trolls I would be ok since death doesn't really matter that much. What I'm not on board with however is that they apparently wanted me to not trust my controller either. Again, it just feels like a lazy excuse to create bad design in lieu of having real difficulty.

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Been thinking of Alan for a while, still have to get all the achievements on Xbox, but as well want to play the graphically improved PC version…

I think in a month I'll receive Quantum Break, release was delayed quite last minute.
Just received an email saying it will arrive tomorro lol

Started The Walking Dead Michonne a week ago, but only played one session.

Edited by blackdog

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The Souls series reminds me a lot of Ikaruga in the sense everyone knows they're supposed to like it but very few know why. You give most journalists a shmup to review and they will complain that it's too short, too easy and too hard (I die lots credit feeding), has too much memorisation, etc. but you give the same person Ikaruga suddenly these are all blessings. Wow, it's only 20m long you can really iterate those levels, such a brave design decision!

Souls is actually pretty mainstream now, Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne were all top sellers and not some niche hit for nerds, this is good because it shows that principles like trying have not been lost with more modern design sensibilities. However, it is true that it is a clunky mess and disproportionately hard at the start, which causes this opening frustration while you're trying to wrangle the controls and systems. I see very few people talk about how they don't like Souls despite it obviously being a very polarizing game, and if they do it's stated as some cringeworthy act of defiance. " But that's because they are hacks. This is also why any game without a smidgen of challenge or corpse running (apparently invented in 2009) is "like Dark Souls."

I got Demon's Souls as an Asia import meaning I'm the coolest person ever and what really hooked me on the game was the exploration and world building. The balance was particularly off back then, PvP was even more of a joke, triggered sections made even less sense in a persistent world, etc. But the fact it's all a bit clunky and death is punishing means the exploration of the world and lore (given its delivery) is something you've got to earn. This is why Dark Souls was so good (seriously look at this) and Darks Souls 2 was by far the weakest as they made a bunch of independent Sonic zones and stitched them together.

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