FPS design ~ the evolution

[Taylor]

All it needs now is some shooting.

I know there's a bow

[Jetsetlemming]

All it needs now is some shooting.

I know there's a bow

Someone's making an Sauerbraten version of Minecraft (for mac, because obv. that's where all the fps fans are) on the minecraft forums.

[⌐■_■]

ahahahhah that pic is awesome and now my background.

are you the owner of a 2 inch flatscreen??

[Patrick_H]

This is mostly a product of console gaming. Let's face it, its a simply more casual kind of design, it takes longer to move your avatar around the world, so if the world is more geometrically complex, people can more easily become frustrated. FPS are an obvious casualty for sure.

[Taylor]

Or perhaps, instead of casual console movement speeds suddenly rearing their heads after over two decades, it's a product of games, across all platforms, becoming more casual orientated and having more of a focus on a expensive, cutscene-heavy, story-driven game structure.

[Patrick_H]

Are we having a chicken or the egg discussion now? I am confused...how does something happen both suddenly and over a period of 10 years.

Haha, don't kid yourself man. Although consoles have been around a long time, they are no doubt most of the sales pie these days, and design decisions are dictated by that.

[Campaignjunkie]

The problem is hardware interface. We need a more accessible control scheme for FPS games; mouse and keyboard are too difficult to pick-up. The dual analog sticks are slightly better, but I still see beginners really struggle with it. Almost every other game genre is easier to pick-up, I feel like.

[Thrik]

The problem is hardware interface. We need a more accessible control scheme for FPS games; mouse and keyboard are too difficult to pick-up. The dual analog sticks are slightly better, but I still see beginners really struggle with it. Almost every other game genre is easier to pick-up, I feel like.

As far as I'm concerned the kind of control that the Wii and now PlayStation Move allow is exactly what's needed. Microsoft have made a bit of a blunder with the Kinect IMO because it's pretty much limited to casual/party games and is basically just a glorified PlayStation Eye. Conversely, Sony and Nintendo have the best of both worlds: gestures, buttons/sticks, and precision pointing — although Sony's technology is considerably superior and doesn't feel jittery.

Sony are now without a doubt in the best position to enable excellent control in just about any genre, finally bringing to a high-definition console the kind of precision a mouse has. First-person shooters, real-time strategies, and god games can finally breathe. If we don't see those genres start to hit a whole new level during this generation, we sure as hell will during the next one.

Of course Microsoft could flip their fortunes if they bring out a Move-esque controller that uses the Kinect camera, just like the Move uses the PlayStation's camera.

[Taylor]

Are we having a chicken or the egg discussion now? I am confused...how does something happen both suddenly and over a period of 10 years.

Haha, don't kid yourself man. Although consoles have been around a long time, they are no doubt most of the sales pie these days, and design decisions are dictated by that.

To reiterate, it's the shifted demographic that dictates design decisions and, although this has moved many developers to them, blaming it on consoles is just lazy.

There are concessions being made as a result, no doubt. For example it’s reasonable to say there’s less vertical gameplay on a game whose target platform was the 360. But movement speed and non-linearity?

[Jetsetlemming]

Or perhaps, instead of casual console movement speeds suddenly rearing their heads after over two decades, it's a product of games, across all platforms, becoming more casual orientated and having more of a focus on a expensive, cutscene-heavy, story-driven game structure.

There is a legitimate argument over console controls, specifically analog stick movement, discouraging complex level design. With a mouse looking around and finding different paths is fast and thoughtless compared to panning your view over with the right stick. Playing doom level maps with an analog stick's speed penalty for turning around is really annoying, I've tried it. It encourages smoother flowing, more corridor-esque maps. You just don't really want a 270 degree turn in a console shooter, because the player will get annoyed by taking three seconds just to go around that corner.

The problem is hardware interface. We need a more accessible control scheme for FPS games; mouse and keyboard are too difficult to pick-up. The dual analog sticks are slightly better, but I still see beginners really struggle with it. Almost every other game genre is easier to pick-up, I feel like.

Mouse is dead simple and completely obvious to anyone who gets ten seconds to figure it out. Keyboard is significantly more of a barrier to entry (so many buttons). I've often been tempted to try and set up a joystick + mouse setup for my PC, but then that would take the effort to dig out my ancient joystick out of storage and hope that somehow I could get it working on a modern OS (or buy a new one but damn that sounds like such a waste of money as a concept).

Annoying how pretty much every single PC game ever that supports gamepads will only support the gamepad alone, or KBM alone, and refuse to let you mix and match. Dual Shock + mouse seems like a pretty good compromise to me. :/

[Taylor]

Fun fact, I didn't get a PC for a while because I clung to my A1200 (and later A1230). As such my first FPS was Gloom and the first time I completed Doom was on the SNES with a D-Pad.

It is nice being able to instantly turn 1080 on a dime, but I see no correlation with it resulting in entirely linear levels. Forcing you down dead ends with no point and having you turn around might be more tedious with slower turn speeds, but it is bad design on both. A level with good flow isn’t going to force you to do this. Bioshock, a game made with consoles in mind, has plenty of hub sections that work fine.

[dux]

I would play more fps' on a console if they let me use the n64 controller. Best ever.

[Nysuatro]

The problem is hardware interface. We need a more accessible control scheme for FPS games; mouse and keyboard are too difficult to pick-up. The dual analog sticks are slightly better, but I still see beginners really struggle with it. Almost every other game genre is easier to pick-up, I feel like.

Something like this ? http://www.emotiv.com/

[Patrick_H]

I wasn't blaming it on consoles! I thought my meaning was inferred there. "Consoles" encapsulates the related demographic shift to blame...more developers work on console games because that's where the money is, and therefore they create level designs with that in mind.

There is a legitimate argument over console controls, specifically analog stick movement, discouraging complex level design. With a mouse looking around and finding different paths is fast and thoughtless compared to panning your view over with the right stick. Playing doom level maps with an analog stick's speed penalty for turning around is really annoying, I've tried it. It encourages smoother flowing, more corridor-esque maps. You just don't really want a 270 degree turn in a console shooter, because the player will get annoyed by taking three seconds just to go around that corner.

Jetslemming, you described exactly the FPS designer's considerations for console FPS.

I work on console FPS games. I can tell from experience that when we interview candidates from PC backgrounds to describe the the differences for developing FPS between PC and console, if they don't answer accordingly then they are no longer considered. I started doing PC level design mods and I was asked the same question for my first job. It's fine to disagree with that philosophy but good luck finding a job. Never mind 270 degree turns, I had to fight to include 90 degree turns in my designs at work.

[Jetsetlemming]

Jetslemming, you described exactly the FPS designer's considerations for console FPS.

I work on console FPS games. I can tell from experience that when we interview candidates from PC backgrounds to describe the the differences for developing FPS between PC and console, if they don't answer accordingly then they are no longer considered. I started doing PC level design mods and I was asked the same question for my first job. It's fine to disagree with that philosophy but good luck finding a job.

I wasn't blaming it on consoles! I thought my meaning was inferred there. Obviously the demographic shift is to blame...they are one and the same.

Cool then, can I have a job at where ever it is you work?